Anti-Neocons

Ryan Dawson 911, Iraq, PNAC , All roads lead to Israel -the short version This is a SUMMARY! go read the actual document here

What really happened on 911? Over 82% of Americans according to polls conducted by CNN believe that the official story of 911 is false and that the government is part of a cover up. There seem to be four main 911 theories, one form the main stream press and the 911 commission and others from researchers who bothered to look at things like physical evidence, the paper trail, and the money trail. I have a fifth theory which unifies the war in Iraq with the cabal that planned 911. The 4 theories briefly go as follows.Some "911 was an inside job" camps like to lay out 4 scenarios. Briefly they go as follows.

1 Is the official story.
We got caught with our pants down and terrorists did 911. And the wars in the Middle East are part of the greater war on terrorism.

2 The incompetence excuse
There was information available about the coming attacks but because of our incompetence we failed to see it. Terrorists attacked the US. And the wars in the Middle East were based on mistakes (more incompetence) but now we got to stay.

3 They let it happen
They knew full well about the coming 911 attacks but allowed it to happen in order to use it as a pretext to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan as it was in military and corporate interests (particularly oil) to do so.

4 They made it happen. (They meaning just vaguely the Bush Admin)
The Bush government either helped protect the terrorists or simply used them as patsies, and assisted the plane crashes effects with bombs placed inside the towers prior to 911. The wars in the Middle East were about oil.

The 911 was an inside job camps then say the evidence must land you somewhere between 3 and 4 with more research dropping you firmly on number 4. Let me now throw in a 5th scenario

5 The Neocons Made it happen with the assistance of a foreign government, the same government where PNAC's papers were first written, and the same foreign nation who we have caught spies from who have been stealing secrets from the US about Iran, and who made up the shadow government of the OSP which is who cherry picked and fabricated the lies told about Iraq in order to start that war. The Wars in the Middle East were for separate reasons, Afghanistan was about a few pipelines as noted but more so about controlling large quantities of un-tapped uranium (a reason for both the Russian and US invasions) and secondly for controlling opium as the CIA uses drug money to fund it's off the book black operations such as the now known massive secret prison systems, (torture camps and human medical/scientific testing). Location-wise Afghanistan is coupled with other color coded revolutions to circle China and Russia with US bases and puppets, (add to that the lesser known negotiations with Japan to allow nuclear subs into the Japanese Sea [pointed at China] in exchange for moving troops from Okinawa to Guam). The main goal however, which the PNAC think tank states, is to keep the eye on the pie: Iran, which Afghanistan and Iraq both boarder. The invasion of Iraq was to solve Israel's oil crisis and stop the threat of a secular Middle East which would become a true economic player and was a threat to the aggressive state of Israel.

The evidence if it was ALL being stated, especially pertaining to the war in Iraq, would land you in scenario 5. To better understand the Iraq War and why the US invaded go here. <-I highly recommend seeing that link after you finish reading this. This timeline may help beginners as well.

911 was the Mossad. But that is not an Israeli intelligence agency per say it is a terrorist agency for the military industrial complex which feeds off of the hatred of the bigots and useful idiots concentrated in Israel. The US and Israel are not really different countries in a way. The US and Israeli agencies and their Neocon governments work for their own interests and those interests are guided by a racist, political ideology mixed up with a fascist version of a religion and Straussian philosophy. There is a total disconnect between the people of America (the sane ones) and the government. US foreign policy works for Likud Israeli interests first second and third. This is because the Zionists and MIC have overlapping financial interests. But most of all the press is Zionist. There is no war greater right now than the information war. Nothing would fix things faster than taking back the media or totally discrediting the corrupt lying fear mongering war cheerleaders we have now.

A lot of people have written about and shown the problems with official 911 story. There is the demolition of building number 7, which the 911 commission didn't even address, and the BBC reported as having fallen while the building was still standing in the background, there are the firemen's reports that the fires were almost out, there are numerous reports of secondary explosions etc. Because it has been said on radio and more so because people have made films about it, many people can recite the arguments for the inside job in their sleep.

911 was an inside job which was part of a larger plan for perpetual war hatched in Israel. 911 and the wars in the Middle East were carefully planned attacks carried out by a faction of Zionist Neocons and the Israeli Mossad. The policy papers were written by Dual Citizens with Israel. The equitty firms profitting form the Iraq War like Trireme (Perle and Kissinger) and the law firms processing contracts like Feith and Zell (Douglad Feith and Marc Zell an Israeli Settler) the Anthrax attack (Dr. Philp Zack) and the anthrax attack speech (written by Lewis Libby) the PNAC documents, the DPG (Libby and Wolfowitz) the lies from jounalists (Safire: Guardian of Zion award winner) (Judith Miller, love affair with Libby) (Russert, Novak, all of FOX etc) about Iraq's WMD were all connected back to the same Zionist cabal in the DOD and office of the vice president. Just think aback to the propaganda about Iraq before the war and then go read what PNAC was writing in the 90s.

On top of that the Niger forgeries (Ledeen, Franklin, Feith) which are Clear concrete proof to show that these men were conciously lying, have still not been reported in the Main Stream media. There is no surprise there they can't even admit that Israel has Nukes, or Spies (Pollard, Art Students, AIPAC, ADL, too many to even name. ) The Niger-gate and the mini-AIPAC the ATC's dealings with the MIC were covered up by Lewis Libby leaking information about a BJA CIA agent (Valarie Plame) to the press, to exactly the same warmongering trash jpurnalists (Miller, Russert, etc) who had been lying about WMD in Iraq.

Also the INC and Chalabi who served as "sources" for these yellow journalists were suggested as replacements to Saddam as far back as the mid 90s by none other than Wolfowitz and Libby. Futher more AIPAC the largest Israeli lobby was caught red handed (Rosen & Weissman) spying on the US about Iraq and Iran through moles (Larry Franklin, Gilon) inside the very same offices that were meeting with Israeli generals. (Feith and Perle). Not only was the lobby caught spying but Zionist lobbiest (Jack Abramoff) were busted bribing congress. [and possibly blackmailing]. Then in a story that was pulled from FOX News, there was another seperate massive Israeli spy ring that had agents living next door to the said hijackers of 911. (Israeli Art students) and on top of that the Mossad with its front (Urban Moving systems) was busted filming 911 and cheering.

The 911 commission comprised a PNAC member, (John Lehman) Bush's current Lawyer who is also a lawyer for Blackwater (Fred Feilding) A Hollinger BOD member with Perle and Kissinger (James R. Thompson) and other dubious characters did not even address the collapse of Building 7 which the BBC reported fell before it had even fallen.

The 911 investigation was a farce it was on a Scooby Doo level for a detective story. Oh look we magically found a passport of a lead hijacker the same one who we will later lie about and connect with Saddam by fabricated a story they he met an anonymous Iraqi in Prague.

Much of the cover up whcih the MSM just repeated was done by Popular Mechanics a magazine whose editer was B. Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. Michael Chertoff of course author of the Patriot Act quickly became the head of Joe Lieberman and Arlen Spector's new creation the department of Homeland security. Note that the Patriot Act was passed while congress was under the duress of anthrax attacks which turned out to be from a Jewish American Zionist and the speech that Colin Powell read to the UN was written by Lewis Libby. Were it not for this attack the Act as well as the Department of Homeland Security may not have passed, at least not so quickly. They already had these documents previously written before 911 just waiting for it to happen.

Central banks with the MIC are controlling the show right now. They're the current cash cow to feed off of Zionism. The Defense department is a corporation, one that was missing trillions of dollars and admitted this the day before 911. The secratry for Policy (Richard Perle, Trireme inc, Hollinger, Boeing) The Army Secratary (Thomas White Eron) The Navy Secartary (Gordon England General Dynamics) The Airforce secratary (James Roche Northrop Grumman) all acted in their own personal interests. The Office of Special Plans' Douglas Feith and Paul Wolfowitz were also Northrop Grumman employees. To better understand how the MIC works See this The USSA a quick look at how the US kills for commercial interests and does not practice the free market principles it pretends to profess. <-very good write up, one of my better ones.

These same criminals were involved with Hoffman and Britannia aviation flight schools run by Christian Zionists where hijackers who were seen in two places at once (Atta) as well as on Abramoff's casino ships, just so happen to live next door to an uncovered Israeli spy ring. The flight schools were a false trail easily gobbled up by the left to show incompotence while at the same reinforcing the idea that there were Muslim hijackers. The said hijackers myth falls apart when a 20% of them turn up to STILL BE ALIVE. So if there were no hijackers then the official story is false and then that means the flighschool information was disinformation to frame patsies and given that Israelis lived next door/with to these agents who were making as much noise as possible and went as far as leaving behind a list with their names on it to be found, means they were actually Mossad. Then Mossad agents get caught on 911 and the information connecting them is classified.

This is not some illuminati, it is not the Catholic Church, there was no missile hitting the pentagon, it is not Jews in general or America in general, it is not just "THE government," it is definitely not lasers from space or human morphing lizards. That kind of outright crap is the same kind of discrediting disinfo that was leaked out to mask Area 51 a real formerly secret military base that spent trillions on new toys for the military but was covered up by nonsense about UFOs and aliens with big eyes that were featured on unsolved mysteries and now can be found on T-shirts.

911 was a classic flase flag operation by the country which can do no wrong in the eyes of the media and would have nothing to fear from the press or an investigation because they have already been getting away with brutal murder for 38 years while sucking billions of dollars from the US the whole time. [even after attacking a US ship.]

Israel was behind 911, the war in Iraq (though that overlaps with oil interests and many other things) and they are the driving force behind a war with Iran and Syria. PNAC's rebuilding America's defenses which mention the need for a new Pearl Harbor like attack, was based on the Israel Clean Break papers and writte by Lewis Libby the lawyer for the Mossad Agent Marc Rich who was involved in Iran Contra and the "privatization" of Russia, a regular mafia thug who got a pardon from Bill Clinton. Also in Iran Contra was Elliot Abrams whogot a pardon from Bush's father.

The players behind what went down are not secret, they do everything openly. It is almost like they want to be caught as if they are bragging about it. If people can ignore the disinfo and focus on real people which we have plenty of actual documentation for as to being behind 911, and the following wars then we can expose these crooks and let the consequences fall on them however they may.

I would like to focus more on who did it rather than just that it was done. It's crystal clear that the government's official story like their stories on everything else, is a complete lie. Who really did 911? Why?

A simple question one should ask, is 'what did 911 serve'? The answer to that is very simple. The aftermath of 911 led to two different wars, and we all know how 911 was falsely attached to the justifications for America's wars. Almost 90% of US troops in Iraq think that Saddam had a role in 911 and that the war was revenge for it. That level of total ignorance is mind-blowing. War is of course is good for select businesses and central banks because they are debt generators. Iraq was not a threat to the US, they were a threat to Israel, and the same case can be said about Iran. We know who really wants these wars.

There can be no doubt that the press consciously distorted information leading up to the wars, and that they never made any clear pronouncements about how they had been wrong about their lies, with the Weapons of Mass Destruction myth being a clear stinging example. There are people in the US who still believe that Iraq had WMDs or that they moved them to Syria lol. If you want to know who planned 911 then a good place to look would be who do we know planned and then lied about Iraq? (also who has been lying the most about Iran) Who championed the disinformation? Where were the lies coming from? And when was this war really planned and where? The answered to all of those questions are sadly the same. Israel and American Zionists. And that is a fact we can prove.

Now we have Adam Pearlman (probably Mossad and definitly a Zionist) writing the video speeches for UBL.

[url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/100907_double_agent.htm]Mossad Double Agent Is Scriptwriter For Bin Laden Tape
[/url]

Does anyone need any MORE evidence that 911 was an Israeli false flag?

al-Qaida Says 2nd Bin Laden Video Coming]A new "Bin Laden" tape airs tomorrow. The last one from last week was made by Adam Perlman A Jewish American (probably Mossad) who has made fake tapes before. The guy was openly anti-Muslim then suddenly converts by the way of one internet posting and then gets to be a spokesperson for Al Qaeda. HAHAHAHA this is worse than we found (put) Atta's passport near ground Zero.


see The FAKE AL QAEDA

Al Qaeda always shows up right when the governement needs a distraction.

Now I have the long version of 911, Iraq, PNAC All Roads Lead to Israel written here 911, Iraq ,PNAC, All Roads Lead to Israel There is even an audio file of the whole thing on the page if youhave trouble reading long documents online and you do't want to print it. there are also files on the bit torrents of me reading it and talking about it. Lastly there are files on this site www.anti-neocons.com that have radio interviews I have done on the topic with great researchers like Mike Rivero of Whatreallyhappened.com and others.

There are seriously 100s of links in my document as well as a book I wrote about that and the media. However I realize that it is a lot of information and until there is a DVD it is hard to pass it past certain circles. So I have written this shorter version and left the longer version there to source and comb over if there are any questions or objections it is on an open forum and you can ask them. No one in two years has even attempted to refute this even with tens of thousands of readers and 100k who watched a slide show video I made.

I do believe other "truther" sites are coming around to this and coming to the same conclusions on their own (which is good, I don't want parrots or sheep). Our new motto for 08 should be

It's the Zionist Stupid.

And just because it needs to be said. All of you out there who support 911 truth should be supporting Ron Paul for president. He is not a 911 truther. (even if he was that would cause him to be throw out f the debates) but Ron Paul is the BEST man running right now and really the only Anti-Neocon in the race. Dennis K is not a neoocon either I will gven him that but I am not making an argument here just vote Ron Paul. If you want to argue about it join the forum and be my guest. Paul can win. All elections are not rigged or Paul would never have stayed in congress so long.

ps A video of a flow chart of the Neocons will be up on this site shortly.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Ryan, I like the way you have traced the evidence.

I am sorta stuck on one part of your analysis, though. You trace things back to Israel and then you seem to be satisfied that the analysis ends at Israel.

I would suggest analyzing the history of Israel, because your current analysis seems to imply that Israel controls the USA and every other nation on Earth.

I would suggest that such an implication is inconsistent with the history of Israel.

I would suggest that Israel was created and located INTENTIONALLY by the USA and UK to create a laboratory for militarism and human oppression, and therefore to create an endless war in the Middle East (Israel vs Palestine and Israel vs other neighbors).

This was done immediately after the end of World War 2, mainly to ensure that defense industries could continue making the fat profits they enjoyed during WW2. They can profit only when war is ongoing or is under preparation.

The creation of Israel in its present location serves several goals.

(1) Constant warfare requires armament and other supplies, which means lots of business for defense industries.

(2) Israel's murder of citizens of neighboring countries is designed to intimidate those countries' citizens. In this way, Israel serves as a laboratory for human oppression and how well a group of people can implement a private agenda through fear, intimidation, and murder.

(3) It creates an argument against Muslim people, who happen to control a lot of natural resources that certain people and businesses in the USA and the UK would like to obtain. This demonizing of Muslim people is an essential part of getting public support for the actions such as the US invasion of Iraq, which currently is ongoing. It lays the foundation for the US attack on Iran, which is partly ongoing indirectly and via black ops, and is partly ready to become a formal military action.

I would suggest that Israel is not controlling anyone, but instead, it is a puppet for certain interests in the USA and UK.

While large international banking entities may profit indirectly from war, it is the defense contractors and thieves of natural resources who are really profiting from war.

++++++++++++

As a closing remark, I have to say I don't understand how you get from your analysis to saying that Ron Paul is the man to vote for in 2008.

You ought to inform yourself better on what Ron Paul thinks and says about terrorism and the Middle East, and on Ron Paul's heavy and IMO improper reliance on Michael Scheuer, the "Anonymous" who wrote Imperial Hubris. Scheuer is the primary disinformation specialist regarding al Qaeda, bin Laden, and "radical Islam" and his main job is to obscure the fact that all of the "terrorism" in the Middle East is due to CIA manipulation and funding of rootless radicals and other disaffected people. Ron Paul could not have picked a more disqualified and unbelievable "expert" on which to base his foreign policy notions.

Aside from that, Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world where he thinks that if we got rid of government regulations, people would automatically treat each other with respect and such regulations would be un-necessary. The history of human conduct stands directly opposite this fantasy view of the world.

Ron Paul has some very very good ideas, like getting rid of the Federal Reserve Bank and the Federal Income Tax.

However, he's pretty inept on a lot of significant issues dealing with foreign policy and the role of the USA in the world.

Out of all the fools and charlatans who have put their hat in the ring for POTUS 2008, Mike Gravel is the man I think is best qualified for the White House. His history impresses me much more than Ron Paul's platform and ideas.

I would suggest that Ron Paul serves as a stalking horse for deregulation-happy spendthrift Republican interests, many of whom are allied with Bush-Cheney.

The Wendigo who in the United States & Britain set up Israel? Powerful Zionist Jews like the Rothschilds. Israel is a strategic location for the Zionist elites & bankers who are the controlling force of the world so Israel is not a puppet of the U.S. but vice versa.

_________________
"A higher level of cannabinoid activity in the human biochemical distribution in the biosphere may be necessary to prevent human extinction" - Dr. Robert Melamede, PhD

Well, that is not my position at all. (read the long version) Israel is just the physical location of where the MIC currently has its central conflict generating cash cow. Before Israel there was always imperialism, before Zionism different forms of Christian supremacy existed such as manifest destiny and the killing a of millions of American Indians.

At this point in history Zionism and Israel just happen to be the focal point, they have used other equally assinine things in the past. But since about WWI it has been all about Zionism. Religions are businesses. There jobs is to create conflicts to generate demand for arms sales and massive debt.

Israel was created by the UK and US if by that you mean the UK (Rothschilds) and US (Morgan and Rockefeller) then yes.

People need to stop seeing nations as their populations and start seeing their populations as slaves to certain international Oligarches because that is what is going on. see [url]this http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... php?t=8697[/url] the USSA it shows how (Federal) governments are just mediums to funnel money out of populations and into select corporations, with religious institutions being among the top (tax free) largest corporations in the world.

It is not Israel that is in control I just used Israel in the title. The US and Israel both bow to the same master. The largest umbrella corporation on earth is the military industrial complex which gets most of its money from the US who borrows it from central banks.

See this the Cash Cow Called Israel I wrote it on 04

actually you might enjoy all of these

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Interesting theory, Sensei Dave. But you point at spooks, goblins and spectres. Your theory reminds me of religion.

Where's your --or anyone's-- proof of the "control" exerted by global Zionist bankers? Maybe I'm wrong on this. Maybe your analysis will get me to change my view.

But you'll need something more solid and probative than pointing fingers at Zionist ghosts.

Ryan @ 7:26 PM --

Okay, I think I understand, you were using a more shorthand view.

I will agree with the explanation you've offered.

But then I get stuck on the "global Zionist bankers" angle. As I said to Sensei Dave, is there any solid evidence to suggest that "global Zionist bankers" control the world? I can understand the suspicions that lead one to conclude in that way, but suspicion isn't proof.

And I understand that clever and devious people who have been in the banking business for centuries can devise ways to hide evidence of their guilt or complicity. I understand that only too well. I am a lawyer who used to work in the financial services world, serving banks and insurance companies. For example, I know very well how powerful AIG/Hank Greenberg is in the financial world.

Your suggestion that global Zionist bankers are the ones who bankroll the wars is a bit far-fetched, because the evidence that I'm familiar with shows that US Taxpayers have funded the wars and military adventures in which the USA has been involved.

But as I said to Sensei Dave, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too eager here. If there's more evidence to suggest that I'm wrong, I'd like to read or view it.

I don't think there's any way to dispute the argument that without funding, many things wouldn't happen. This argument should not cause you to assume that those who dole out loans are in control of everything the loan proceeds serve, however.

Banks loan money to MAKE money. They don't loan money to control society. Banking is EASY money, almost as easy as being a trader of stocks, bonds, currency or commodities. Almost as easy as being a sales manager for an insurnace company.

But using your argument (and Sensei Dave's argument too, I guess) then I would have to assume that the banks in my town who loan money to house builders are actually in control of the "development" that occurs when one turns open land into houses.

I think you put too much emphasis on the bankers, and not enough on the political players who enjoy using lesser humans as pawns.

It is not ghosts. Israel was definitely a Zionist creation. Go to the hidden history section of this site and read the posts about the hidden history of Russia and WWI.

Rothschild was writing to Balfor about the creation of Israel long before any Holocaust or WWII. And the British inved Gaza 4 times in WWI and guess who bought the most land in Palestine after the war? Nathon Meyers Rothschild.

Jerusalem has always been for about 900 years a awesome war genrating cashcow. Nothing is better for banks and debters than to stick a bunch of fanatical Jewish racist bigots smack dap in the middle of the Muslim world and holiest city. Islam outlaws usury. They are the few nations left not controlled by these bankers.

Still Israel (the governemt nor the people) are the Zionists. A lot of people are Zionists most of them are powerless. Zionism is just a convient philosophy for these elites to adopt because it is so militant irrational and full of hatred yet is free from critics because they can play both the race and religion card to anyone who speaks out. It is these ZIonist the people on the top who matter and it is actually a small group of people. They are not just using it though, they actually believe in this crap much like the last trend of euginics nuts believed in that. It is like yes Christianity was used to murder the New World but that doesn't mean the people doing it didn't really believe in it they did.

These people will throw Israel to the wolves when they no longer need it. (as they did the USSR) They could care less if the people there end up getting nuked on day. It would be great for them because then they could have reason for even more wars and against far weaker enemies which they can easily smash.



The US governemnt prints money and uses some tax money to pay its warbonds from the central bank. The corporations start the wars for their slice of the pie but no one gets as much as the bank. The US public is lied to to get into war even when many oppose it but they are forced to pay for the wars under the threat of jail.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

thanks for joining us The Wendigo.

i'm with you, personally, i see the central banks as a big part of the problem and i also see that there are many jews in the banking system who are supportive of the state of israel (in it's present location / zionists), based in part on things they donate to or help fund. but like you i also don't see that as "THE" top of the totem pole (so to speak). there's still information that illudes me but i'm confident that the central banks and even the largest national banks in several countries ecspecially here in the states as well as in europe play a big role in shaping our world day to day.

this makes me laugh ry, "the short version". it's a good idea i suppose

_________________

Ryan -- I agree with your essay on "The Cash Cow called Israel." That's basically the point I was trying to make.

Let's imagine it is 1922 or 1945. I would use 1945 because that's what I consider the pivotal date, but I throw in 1922 because you cited to the UK's "creation" of Israel in 1922. I would dispute that Israel was "created" then. IMO it wasn't actually "created" until 1947, and I think the evidence supports me on that point.

In any case, imagine that you are a leader of an Allied Nation who just "won victory" in World War 2. So I think that means, imagine you are a leader of the USA or the UK.

When you sit down to determine what to do about the diaspora and the desire to create a safe Jewish homeland, what would you examine when determining location?

The religious claim to the Palestinian location is only one part of the puzzle.

If I were locating a new nation called "Israel," I would attempt to place that nation where its new Jewish settlers would be safe from attack, and wouldn't have to use lots of military force to defend themselves. I would seek a coalition of neighboring nations who might be willing to create an "Israel" by ceding land to this new "Israel" nation -- for a compensatory fee, of course. The land would have value, and the donor nation would be compensated for that value.

The VERY LAST place I would choose would be a place that would create endless violence.

And then, even if Palestine proves to be the best place, I would have to say that settling this new "Israel" would have to be done in a way that respects Palestininan sovereignty.

In creating Israel, the location chosen was full of friction and strife.

And the manner of colonizing Israel was designed to create violence and antipathy.

There is absolutely, positively NO WAY that the US and UK would have been unaware that placing Israel in its current location would cause problems.

And it's likewise impossible to believe that the US and UK didn't know that violent, forced "settlement" of Israel would cause eternal friction in an area where historically, Jews and Christians and Muslims have lived in relative peace and harmony before the settlement of Israel.

The evidence seems to indicate quite clearly that the location and settlement of Israel were done intentionally, to create endless war and a laboratory for human oppression.

But I don't see where the evidence suggests global Zionist bankers were the reason for these things happening.

Oh we don't need central banks to make it happen. They just make it all bigger. The US was perfectly capable of genocide and invasions long before it had a central bank or Federal Reserve.

That is why I see (it you must graph it) the MIC on the top with Zionism (and its grip on the media) being the principle methond and the banks, govenrment, and militaries assisting in the means.

Back in the day it was railroad, steel, gold, and coal. Now it is weapons, pharmaceuticals, security firms, and oil. Same song and dance even some of the same families.

I still want to get rid of the Fed though. They could not pay for it on this scale without it.

Vote Ron Paul.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Yes, I agree. Absolutely. The citizens of Israel who do not support hawkish Zionist violence and murder are pawns in a geopolitical chess game. I pity those who moved to Israel on religious grounds, only to find that religion --honest, sincere, thoughtful and humane faith-- is not the point of Israel.



I would agree with most of this, but I think you over-emphasize the power and methods of "Zionism."

What it really distills to is the principal people who will benefit from geopolitics. And this "benefit" quite often extends well beyond money. Sometimes it is simply ideological power, a launch pad from which to fire demagoguery and propaganda.

"Zionism" actually cannot ever be anything more than a shorthand for a view of how the world ought to run.

It is most definitely not a force or power that is self-executing.

+++++++++++

Aaron, thanks for the welcome.

+++++++++++

Ryan, I should add that I definitely appreciate and respect your perspective, since you seem to have nailed so many things down as well as my research has done.

Perhaps you are/were famiiliar with my blog, which was only just deleted after midnight last night as a step toward more active community involvement and less soap-box grandstanding.

The blog was called liquified viscera. My discussions of Israel, Zionism and AIPAC were very very similar to what you have expressed in this excellent website.

How? Why? Are you kidding me?

They wrote PNAC, the made the Niger forgeries, they sent the anthrax, they enjoy total immunity in the MSM in their invasions and occupations, they were fucking busted not only filimg 911, but living next door to hijackers (the hijacking story we know is disinfo b/c they turn up alive [no need to worry they control the press) but AIPAC is the strongest lobby in America AND it was caught spying on the US AND Israel was busted with the largest spy ring in history before and during 911. Google the Israeli Art Students.

That is who did it it is clear. Also look at where the fake Bin-Laden tapes come from, and about 500 other things spelled out in the long document.

You don't have to "play up" Zionism. Its just the turth. These wars are by and for Israel and by that I mean the MIC's largest cashcow.

you really ought to read these links I have been making and definity the long version of the All Roads document.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

But you cannot have it both ways, as I see it.

Either you argue that Israel/Zionism controls "everything," or you must acknowledge that Zionism is nothing more than a philosophy.

Maybe we disagree only in the nomenclature used. I tend to be nit-picky about accuracy.

Blaming it all on Zionism is no more productive than blaming it on Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, or any other "-ism".

These -isms are not self-executing. They do not have any power of their own. They cannot achieve anything. They are just philosophies. That's all.

So what I'm suggesting is that "Zionism" is no more than a shorthand for whatever you are saying is lurking behind the actions that you attribute to Zionism.

As you mentioned, a lot of murder has been committed in the name of Christianity.

But that doesn't mean Christianity itself caused the murder. It cannot, it has not, it never will. Christianity is just a philosophy. It has no power of its own. Its only power is through those who follow it, and who do things that supposedly are consistent with the philosophy it represents.

I don't mean to argue negatively, or demean your work. That's not what I'm saying, and it's not what I'm interested in.

What I'm saying is, blaming anything on "Zionism" is, at bottom, in the realms of evidence and logic and reasoning, a cop-out. It might be a conclusion drawn after conducting most of the detective sleuthing, but it isn't the solution.

I'll stop there.

I've been participating in e-forums long enough to know that when someone comes into a forum as a newbie and gets into deeper arguments with the site operator or one of its regular commenters, there is a fair chance the person is a "concern troll" or some other lurker on behalf of propaganda/disinfo interests.

I don't argue on behalf of anyone but myself. I want to uphold rigorous standards of proof, logic and reasoning.

That's the full extent of my "agenda." No "concern trolling" and no ghost-writing sock puppetry on behalf of Israel or anyone or anything else.

Because, having control over a nation's money, gives you power over its government.

Do you just like to hear yourself talk or something?

Zionism is not just some belief like believing in Unicorns or something. It is a political philosophy of ethnic cleansing that advocates murder and real murders are happening real homes are being demolished inthe name of Greater Israel. Israel's neighbors are being attacked by them and occupaied by them. This isn't just an -ism.


It is not shorthand for something else. It is talking about real people dual citizens with Israle and real terrorist organization the Mossad and real spy rings all working under this political philosophy of religiously indoctrinated racism and fascism.




No CHritistian insitutions that financed these wars and Christian soldiers who picked up the guns and killed people are to blame. That doesn:t blame ALL of Christianity but it does land suarely on born again Christians and Christian fanatics. There religion does get the blame because many of the things it has done would be impossible without it. You do go burning whitches when no one believes that whitches can even exist. Etc. You dont have inquisitions when no one cares what different relgions or atheist are around them. This was very much part of Christianity and saying oh well thats not TRUE Christianity is a cop-out about like say oh well that was not true communism. Manifest Destiny was a religious prejudice. ZIonism does not blame Judaism or Xtianity as a whole but it is a sect of those religoin and it is perfectly to blame as much as Nazism is to blame for Nazis killing their neighbors.

One can not try to shift the blame off themselves by trying to associate themselves to Jews in general or Judaism in general that is not going to work here.

You know there were a lot of economic motivations for the African slave trade but that does not dismiss the racism (well documented) behind it that was an intrinsic part of it. It isn't like they were just "using" the racism either. They definitely were racist. And these Zionist don't just do it because it creates a lot of money for the war industry. That actually believe in their own crap.

by the way wtc hot enought to melt 110 stories of steel but not hot enough to burn this woman
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc1_woman.html



or this man

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Ryan, I don't know why my questions have you getting all defensive. If you think I'm trying to attack or "expose" you, please think again.

Zionism is a philosophy. It cannot do anything without those who follow it.

So when you blame "Zionism" you really should be indicating what people you mean, and how it is that they are "Zionist."

Listen, Ryan -- I am as much disgusted by Israel and the Zionists who lead its government's hawkish wing as any person can be. I have written many essays on the immoral treatment Israel doles out to her neighbors and "enemies" and I know damned well that Israel's "enemies" are no more enemies than Mr Bush is Mr Netanyahu's enemy.

If you want to assume that I'm some stooge sleeper agent for Israel, I suppose I can't change your view on that with sound reasoning or logic, because sound reasoning and logic cannot lead you to such a conclusion.

I'm trying to find out how you fill the gaps in your analysis. If you can fill them with facts that are supportive of your thesis, I am going to be more persuaded on your take on "Zionism" as a cause of all the world's evils.

But as it stands, what I see you doing is concluding that "Zionism" is at fault for things that a philosocphy cannot achieve on its own.

As I said -- Zionism doesn't murder anyone. FOLLOWERS of Zionism might.

But the philosophy itself, it is harmless without people to carry out its supposed dictates.

So who are the people you refer to when you use the blanket term "Zionist"?

I tend to think of past Israelis like David Ben-Gurion, or Ariel Sharon, or Moshe Dayan... or present Israelis like Ehud Olmert and Binyamin Netanyahu.

And their allies in the PNAC, like the Scooter, and Feith, and Kristol, and Perle, and Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld, and several Bushes... and many others.

But you can't describe anything accurately with a simple accusation against "Zioinists."

Here's where I'm coming from -- if you were to try to persuade a jury of the crimes committed by "Zionists" they would let everyone go unless you were able to pinpoint the people who are furthering the "Zionist" agenda.

So if you want to persuade someone whose proof standards are rigorous, you need to be more specific.

++++++++

As to loving to hear myself talk -- Man, that's silly! You have a whole website full of your own writing here. How can you accuse me of loving my own voice when there's enough of your writing here to choke an army of horses?

Dismiss me simply if you must. But your proof problems will survive your dismissal of my questions and observations.

Are you serious?

Ben Bernanke doesn't control me.

Give me a break!

It is not just a philosophy it is a religgoius philospphy. Kant or Socrates had Philosophuies but they don't have multi-billion dollar institutions backing the promotion of it. Being tied in with religion makes a huge difference.

You are putting words in my mouth agian. I am not saying Zionism is the cause of all the world evils. I am saying that a group of Neoconservaitves in the US government as well as the MOssad were behind 911 and the lies that took aus to war in Iraq. It is not my opinion its a fact.


Did you read the long document yet?

This short versio is like a page the other one is about 52 and the book is about 200 if you want details I also talked for 3 hours straight about it on mp3


It is not a blanket term all of these bastards are named and explained in the document. You are sitting here nit-picking at a fricken summary. And For the forth time I will say it is not just about Zionism. Yes they are Zionist but these Neocons all have names all have organizations and think tanks wrote very specific papers and are involved in very specific scandals and trials. Try reading the actual document.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Ry has named all of the guilty Zionist names. You are judging all his work on a few posts.

Do you follow the same logic in the use of the word "Naziism and Nazis?" Because Zionism is the Nazi Party of this time: the REAL "Neo-Nazi".

The political philosophy of Zionism is no less harmful than that of Nazi philosophy. Do YOU get "defensive" over the criticism of Naziism? Or do you think that is different?

_________________

Zionism is as much of a harmless philosophy by itself as Nazism was.

It is incorrect to say that either is harmless on its own, because on its own, it would cease to exist, while if it is endorsed by people, it can (as you've pointed out) be quite harmful. Yes, the individuals are to blame, but the ideology itself still acts as a catalyst for them, in and of itself.

new guy http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=1388 go read it.

If you have sound I even read it to you on an audio file.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

i'm glad wendigo has come to this board. It's good to keep discussing these things. You see nothing that's happening at the moment would be happening if it weren't for the philosophy of Zionism. Just as WWII wouldn't have happened the way it did if it werern;t for Nazism. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

_________________
our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

www.bebo.com/therevolution-group

and philosophies are different than religious philosophies. Religious philosophies have tax exempt multi national billion dollar institutions supporting their dogma. You won't see that for existentialists or realists krustamurti hemple kune aristotle etc.




lol someone still doesn't understand private central banking. That's OK because you ask us to teach you / correct you if you were mistaken. When you get three hours go dig into this http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=1715 you may even want to watch that before you read my article on 911

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I am actually with Wendigo in this one. You can't paint everyone with the same brush. There are good plenty of good zionists i.e. Chomsky(yes he is a zionist, admits it in manufacturing consent) and plenty in the holy land are believe it or not are helping the palestinians build houses back up again. There are zionists in the refugee camps day in day out helping people. So, zionism might be responsible for creating Israel but it's too late too apologise for the existence of the aparthied state of Israel. Our accepting that fact or not will not change a thing.

_________________

Chomsky has a different take on Zionism. Remember, the word was stolen from the Jews by Israeli Nationalists: (most Jews have an association with the word beyond the political ideology of Zionism, which is why I generally use the term "Israeli Nationalism" instead. I think it is important to clearly differentiate political Zionism from religious/spiritual Zionism)

From an interview with Chomsky:

QUESTION: Does Zionism have anything to do with the fate of the Palestinians?

CHOMSKY: This is a very complex problem. It depends on what you mean by Zionism. I was a Zionist activist in my youth. For me, Zionism meant opposition to a Jewish state. The Zionist movement did not come out officially in favor of a Jewish state until 1942. Before this it was merely the intent of the Zionist leadership. The Zionist movement for a long time stood against the establishment of a Jewish state because such a state would be discriminatory and racist

_________________