Anti-Neocons

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture, and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of six billion human beings.

The same statistics also suggest that this girl’s parents believe -- at this very moment -- that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.

The entirety of atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want.

It is worth noting that no one ever need identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, “atheism” is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (eighty-seven percent of the population) who claim to “never doubt the existence of God” should be obliged to present evidence for his existence -- and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate to a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible, and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.

Consider: the city of New Orleans was recently destroyed by hurricane Katrina. At least a thousand people died, tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions, and over a million have been displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Katrina struck believed in an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. But what was God doing while a hurricane laid waste to their city? Surely He heard the prayers of those elderly men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. Only the atheist has the courage to admit the obvious: these poor people spent their lives in the company of an imaginary friend.

Of course, there had been ample warning that a storm “of biblical proportions” would strike New Orleans, and the human response to the ensuing disaster was tragically inept. But it was inept only by the light of science. Advance warning of Katrina’s path was wrested from mute Nature by meteorological calculations and satellite imagery. God told no one of his plans. Had the residents of New Orleans been content to rely on the beneficence of the Lord, they wouldn’t have known that a killer hurricane was bearing down upon them until they felt the first gusts of wind on their faces. And yet, a poll conducted by The Washington Post found that eighty percent of Katrina’s survivors claim that the event has only strengthened their faith in God.

As hurricane Katrina was devouring New Orleans, nearly a thousand Shiite pilgrims were trampled to death on a bridge in Iraq. There can be no doubt that these pilgrims believed mightily in the God of the Koran. Indeed, their lives were organized around the indisputable fact of his existence: their women walked veiled before him; their men regularly murdered one another over rival interpretations of his word. It would be remarkable if a single survivor of this tragedy lost his faith. More likely, the survivors imagine that they were spared through God’s grace.

Only the atheist recognizes the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved. Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs. Because he refuses to cloak the reality of the world’s suffering in a cloying fantasy of eternal life, the atheist feels in his bones just how precious life is -- and, indeed, how unfortunate it is that millions of human beings suffer the most harrowing abridgements of their happiness for no good reason at all.

Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering. But how else can we understand the claim that God is both omniscient and omnipotent? There is no other way, and it is time for sane human beings to own up to this. This is the age-old problem of theodicy, of course, and we should consider it solved. If God exists, either He can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities, or He does not care to. God, therefore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God’s goodness in the first place. And any God who could concern himself with something as trivial as gay marriage, or the name by which he is addressed in prayer, is not as inscrutable as all that. If He exists, the God of Abraham is not merely unworthy of the immensity of creation; he is unworthy even of man.

There is another possibility, of course, and it is both the most reasonable and least odious: the biblical God is a fiction. As Richard Dawkins has observed, we are all atheists with respect to Zeus and Thor. Only the atheist has realized that the biblical god is no different. Consequently, only the atheist is compassionate enough to take the profundity of the world’s suffering at face value. It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion -- to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions, and religious diversions of scarce resources -- is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity. It is a necessity, however, that places the atheist at the margins of society. The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors.

Sam Harris of the Huffington post. No I dodn't write this. See there are others lol. -Ry
This is an excerpt from An Atheist Manifesto, to be published at www.truthdig.com in December

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

That's good ry....I enjoyed reading that.

_________________
REP THE STUTTER STEP THEN BOMB A LEFT UPON THE FASCISTS!! (ratm)

Like a Hawk...I am watching you, Mr. President.

God means many things to many people. For me, there is most certainly a God out there. You may never know my belief in God because you are an atheist. You do know that it is far from the traditional sense of the word. I accept my understanding of this existence and my spirituality and expect nothing more or less from any atheist.

_________________


"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and
opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those
who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible
government which is the true ruling power of our country." Edward Bernays

Is your god benevolent? or does it send hurricanes, tsunamis and eathquakes to kill hundreds of thousands of people?

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I respect atheists because these are generally intelligent people who have asked more questions than those who blindly follow empty religions because of custom or traditions. I only wish I could give them more respect... if only they would continue asking more questions.


Ry; Have you tried all the practices on this site? http://www.swamij.com/ ?

Have you studied and followed the countless other spiritual development systems the world has to offer?

If you haven't; saying God does not exist is like saying Osama was behind 9/11 not knowing what WTC 7 was. Get informed, study the questions that bother you. Please do not throw the baby out along with the bathwater because you have been subjected to a false religion or a false interpretation of the true religion.


God created all things. And God is all things. Yes, many evil and terrible things happen. But what about all the beautiful and good things that happen? Should we say you are evil because you once stepped on an insect and killed a living being? Or should we look at all your actions in your whole life to see who you are overall? We have not yet seen the end to this dark age humanity is living through so you can not say that these current times and events are the final point of this creation. We must look at the overall picture. To do that we must first look at ourselves. God is not to be found in the sky but inside yourself.

God is found in making yourself believe in one which is also known as makebelieve.

I have probably studied more spiritual systems than you can name. I bet I know more about Christianity than you do, I have also studied actual history surrounding these religions something most people don't have a clue about.

My grandmother is a Methodist minister. I went to a Bible school for two years. I got a degree in Philosophy from William & Mary. I was already teaching religion in community colleges before I was even finished with my university degree because I knew so much about it. Every thing from Native American faiths to Taoism. I have been in debates with leading theologians and detroyed them. Falwell will not answer my challenge.
My girlfriend and I have both gotten rewards from American Atheist for things we have written.

I know what I am tlaking about. I am so sick of people saying unless a person has absoute knowledge of everything in the universe then they can't reject their phony religion. Thor and Athena are no more rediculous than Allah and Jehovah.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Atheists- believe that no god or higher power exists, and yet at this point in time, has not be scientifically proven, and most are still hesitant to say that Atheism is even a belief in itself.

Religious people/god believers/makebelievers- believe that a 'God' exists and everything that falls under the standards of whatever their own personal religion requires, and yet to say that there is undoubtedly a 'God'; Has not been scientifically proven.

So the one thing that we all know that we have in common, is that NO ONE really knows 100% without a doubt. If there is or if there isn't a 'God'. There is no one way on either side, to prove that this is or is not real.
I believe that we should look at the big picture, and that each of us should acknowledge the things we KNOW and the facts that do exist, at this point in time.

These two things as different as they are, are simply beliefs in which people choose to live their lives by. Regardless, of how simplistic, unrealistic, logical, or fantasy-like this may seem to both parties. Science is not always 100% accurate either. These ideas and theories, may never make sense at all. However, the things of what we know or may never know will always be an issue. And keeping an open mind to all these views is the one 'logical' thing we all can share in and do, that will help much more than becoming frustrated with the unknown.

I didn't say religions, I said spiritual systems of development. Development of the human body mind and soul! There is a vast difference between popular religions (which are spiritually starved) and religions such as tibetan buddhism which have actual systems of development which you can follow.

No doubt you have rejected belief in God as proposed by the Catholic Christian religion since this religion does not offer a decent system of spiritual development.

So have you tried all the practices on this site? http://www.swamij.com/ ? Or is your knowledge only skin deep? Can you sit still for a few minutes without losing your concentration? Can you stop the flow of thoughts that goes through your mind?

God is found through a certain chain of events of which you have no control over. I know my words will never convince you to change your mind since words alone rarely do. All I ask is don't stop searching.

Take a look at this picture:



Do you think it has been artificially created? Assume that it is real, would that serve as evidence that there is a higher purpose for our life than we may be aware of?

What if you were shown scientific records of people stopping their hearts and being able to consume no oxygen for many hours? Think that is impossible?

I believe in this, which is the reason I do not believe in God... if that makes sense to you of course. God is found within, nowhere else, therefore the entire idea of a supreme being does not make sense. Not to me.

It seems to me that you are getting religion and spirituality mixed up as if the belief in God is interchangable with spirituality.

_________________
“I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed, there would be no more wars.” - Abbie Hoffman

believing in a soul and in a spirit is already a religion it is already accepting the supernatural, so it doesn:t matter if you call it a religion or a spiritual system its still a religion.

True Buddhism is far more intellectual and it is a beneficial practice but that still doesn't make it true, it still has crazy things like reincarnation and tranmigration of souls.


Proving god does not exist is the same as proving unicorns don't exist.
You don't prove a negative. It is impossible to prove anything DOES NOT exist.

You can not porve Jupiter's core is not made of magic cheese. That doesn't mean we should doubt it is not made of cheese.

If you are just going to believe in anything that can not be proven false then you have to believe in unicorns, Lepocons, fairies, flying cupcake monsters, trolls, elves, Zues, Thor, the Devil , angles, witches, giants, dragons, demons, wizards, ghosts and every other assinine myithcal entity anyone can make up because none of these things are proven to NOT exist.

how can you show better that something is not real than for no one to have ever seen it touch it hear it show it ect. With all their trillions and 2,000 years of time Christians/jews/muslims have not a shread of proof for god the creation story or any of their little fairy tales. There is = the amount of evidence for god as there is for a giant turtle holding up the earth.

it is non-sense.

Buddhism has no god but it does have other magical things. It is a far more respectable religion same goes for atheist-Taoism and some pantheist religions. See religions are not bad just because they are false. I mean the Sanata Claws myth is fun yet false but I think it is a poossitive thing. But Christianity, Islam, Judiasm and Hinduism have all done far more harm than good. They breed authoritarianism and foster hatred and finance wars.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Just because there are foolish men who interpret religions in a wrong manner and use them to control the masses for their own egoistic purposes that does not mean that you can attribute their actions to the religions!

Just because some people of influence pulled the religious strings during the middle ages for geopolitical purposes doesn't mean that Christianity is a religion of war! Just because in our modern times Islam is used a scapegoat and a smokescreen for the real geopolitical struggles doesn't mean Islam is a religion of war! Just because the majority of the world's most powerful bankers are Jewish doesn't mean they represent Judaism and the true religious Jews! I'm at a loss to why you mixed Hinduism in with these ones though. Are you aware of the law of dharma? What is the karmic cycle? What goes around comes around? How can any true Hindu be incited towards violence?

You have not answered my questions in the previous post. So I assume that your knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism and the spiritual practice it proposes is only skin deep. This is not surprising since it is impossible to deeply follow a system of spiritual development with no faith in God. And if you have not deeply followed a system of spiritual development (mind you the Catholic church does not offer one) then you have no basis to claim there is no God. That's the dilemma. Where will your true faith in God come from, if it ever will come? Not from my words obviously. As I said a certain chain of events must occur for you to realise what true faith in God is. Just don't attach your mind to any "certainties".

Actually yes you can when those actions would have been impossible without the finacial backings of those religious institutions.

For example the Zionist state of Israel could not exist without the Billions it recieves from Christian churches in the US.

these things are very real, they are not of the pas tlike killing Native Americans they are NOW and in the past.



Thomas's first mover arguments and all his arguments are for the deist god not the christian god. Secondly they don't work. They are not debatable at all. It is just midevil philosophy for teenagers. No serious thinking person can read them without lauughing.

See my invisible Ocean Rant, it wipes out Aquainas.
Thomas Aquintas assumes all was void and that things had to be created because that is what his religion told him. Something can not come from nothing so he thinks a god must have made everything. And god is magical and eternal. Well existence was never nothing so it did not have to be created. Existence is just as eternal as nothingness.

What came before the nothingness? Prior nothingness. It would be silly to say that nothingness was creating more nothingness. It's just continuing to be nothing. Likewise Somethingness is just existing it doesn't COME FROM anywhere when it is the where it would be coming from. Just like nothingness is eternal and not crated by somethingness, Somethingness is also eternal and does not come from nothingness. God is totaly unecessary.

Everything was never still to be set into motion either. We know that when in matter are instrinsic properties that make it move. Gravity pulls in on itself and heat from that friction makes it exspand it has no choice but to explode. It is its own mover.

what would be shocking is somehow making all matter stop.



Bruce Lee did it even better, if you can find it read "Any color Paint" by Bruce Lee, he dismantles everything Aquaitas said in one page.

the best argument for a god-thing is the one for free-will, that is the ONLY position with even half an argument. Still it basically calls for an unknown and is no reason to invent religions. For even if there is a god, if no one has access to it, then no one can very well say what it wants etc it is the same as if it did not exist.



This is comical because you just said you can not reject the idea of god unless you believe in god. lol.

well here is one for you, it doesn't matter because I used to believe in a god and I used to be Buddhist to so your still wrong.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I believe that you've completely missed the point... those financial backings came from those "foolish men," not the religion. Religion is like a philosophy, and I don't think it's possible for a philosophy to be corrupt in that manner...

_________________
“I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed, there would be no more wars.” - Abbie Hoffman

The philosophy is righteous, but the personally gratifying manipulative interpretations of religious philosophy is the corruption. My God is benevolent. Of course, I don't believe that God dictates nature. God creates life, but he does not dictate it. Everything happens for a reason. For every action there is an equal yet opposite reaction. For every Good there is an equal Bad. The human existence is littered with objective truth within subjective opinion. Persuasion and rhetoric is the weapon with conflicting opinions and beliefs. There will always be someone to disagree. I believe that whatever you choose to make peace in your life is righteous for you, although it may not be righteous for me. I may not even agree, but if it makes you happy, then I should accept it. My subjective belief of what evil is, may be someone's subjective belief in what is good and right. Who are we to judge one another? The customs and beliefs of people around the world are entirely subjective. We must not look at those who are different with an ethnocentric attitude. I accept everyone for who they are, even if I don't agree with who they are. In the end, your conscience should grow strong and you should be able to accept your life on Earth.

_________________


"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and
opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those
who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible
government which is the true ruling power of our country." Edward Bernays

oh its not the religion its just all the bad billions of followers who are mislead by it. pfffft The religion is the billions of followers. they could not consintrate their wealth under one roof and would not support Israel's religiously rationalized land claims were it not for their religion.

Atheist are not giving Israel any money. Christians are. You can say or those are the bad christians well they are the majority too. You can not seperate wholely the religious institutions from what just the religion itself because one does not exist without the other.

and if you got rid of all the preachers and people just read the bible that would bad too as it is one of the sickest books ever written.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Religions are crazy philosophies for the feeble minded.. Blah bleh.. Their sick books have been written by sick men for sick purposes.. bleh blah.. You've been a Christian a Buddhist a Muslim a Hindu a Zoroastrian and a Tupi High Shaman and you have found no God through those religions.. bleh blah.

There is no God. I see it now. Atheism is the door to reality..

Ok so what does Atheism has to offer in terms of human development?


PS. Israel has been built by the financial elite who control the US and UK. Perhaps it is no coincidence that these financial elite are overwhelmingly Jewish (not to say that they are followers of true Judaism and the Holy Torah, the Talmud.. maybe). Christian contributions play a role sure.. just as the Jewish organizations who channel those funds play a role.. but I wouldn't say they are a major factor. After all, there wouldn't be any kind of contributions (Christian or whatnot) if it weren't for the Zionist lobbies.

_________________
"Since both energy and stillness, of themselves, do not have form, it is not through the senses that they may be found, nor understood by intellect alone, although, in nature, both abound." - The Tao Te Ching

well most of the zionist are Christian. Israel gets more money from Christian churches than they do the US government.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Care to provide any links to support that? How much does Israel recieve from the owners of the FED (the same people who own the US Government and the mass media)? And what makes you think those "Zionist Christians" represent true Christianity and the word of Jesus Christ?

_________________
"Since both energy and stillness, of themselves, do not have form, it is not through the senses that they may be found, nor understood by intellect alone, although, in nature, both abound." - The Tao Te Ching

By setting the foundation of this argument with the idea of a SOUL you are already setting the pramaters of this argument on a theological basis and not a logical one. This is where we, atheists, have a problem.

We do not believe there is a soul after we die. you see? you die that's it. done, finished....no after life no nothing...so the whole idea of development of a soul in search for god is futile. It is a philosophical idealist argument. We, atheists, believe the truth is found within material empirical evidence. Where as idealists, have this want, this hunger to have something more and would be completely disappointed to find nothing and so they choose to find anything that would closely resemble God, which leads alot of them into doing silly things like joining cults etc..... I too have studied various religions, I was born in Italy been to the holy sights, been blessed by the mightiest of priests (thanks or no thanks to my mother). My father is a Methodist, my mother catholic, have studied various forms of eastern religions, so as to understand what I'm talking about.

Spiritual development is a theological argument and you simply disguise it as truth seeking, where I believe that the truth is found through empircal material evidence, not some kind of idea. Spiritual enlightment, god, eternal happiness, is all, as far as I'm concerned, nothign but wishful thinking. And I'll ask you this, are you going to waste your life searching, or are you actually going to do something? And what if you NEVER find spiritual enlightment, god, or eternal happiness, will you then be convinced that there is no ideological god, enlightment, eternal happiness? HOw long do you have to search...and how long have people searched...through out history and still have found nothing but putting together silly little ideas about spiritual enlightment...hell I can come up with my own path to eternal happiness, or spiritual enlightment, put it on a website..and have a few followers following the same path...don't mean its' right.

The truth I seek is in trying to find cures for diseases, feeding the hungry, things that actually matter, and let me tell you praying or meditation won't work. I dont' need spiritual enlightment, I need to worry about paying my bills, curing myself when I'm sick, helping my fellow men and women out when in need.

I study the BIOLOGY of malaria, and let me tell you God, spiritual enlightment/development has nothign to do with that...malaria is a parasite which has evolved and uses biochemical mechanisms to infect. Find out what those mechanisms are and you're on the right path to the truth. You see? The truth being, finding a cure.

You say to try to understand all forms of "spiritual development" yet you probably don't understand fully science and how IT works. I do understand science, and I do understan the various forms of religions. I rationally choose to accept empircal evidence over ideological wishfull hippy thinking. Plain and simple. Atheists are the ones responsible for keeping whatever little sanity is left in this world. Ideological search for the truth is just plain lazy. Do something...help out in this fucked up world. Don't just stand there searching for "eternal happiness" whatever that means....Me? I am trying to find a cure for malaria, which kills innocent children. That is moral, not god, or truth seeking or hippy wishful ideological thinking. And as an atheist, I feel more morally obligated to doing so, cause I frankly dont' see religion helping or truth seeking or spiritual enlightment or however you want to linguistically categorize/disguise/ name it. It is idealist theology which can never ever be proven empircally vs. materialist science which CAN be proven empirically.



An atheist would rather have a hospital built than a temple or church.
An atheist would rather a deed done, than a prayer said.

_________________
REP THE STUTTER STEP THEN BOMB A LEFT UPON THE FASCISTS!! (ratm)

Like a Hawk...I am watching you, Mr. President.

Thank you Larry. I will just say I agree with that.

And I will add just this. Atheist are not necessarily harnessed to science, we use philosophy too. But not religion or religious philosophy.

a lot of people confuse religion and philosophy. religion appeal to the supernatural and that include souls or made up new defintition for the word "energy".


for example Veganism can seem like a religion in its practice and cult like following of fashion punks. However it is not a religion because it has no tied to the supernatural. It is a respectable philosophy tied to the belief in not killing animals for food or raising them in harmful ways.

Now I am not a Vegan I believe in killing animals for food but not in raising them in harmful ways. I also realize that my diet has no effect on the food market because they are subsidized anyway and our purchasings of the food makes no difference to them.

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END THE GOD DAMN WARS
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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

reminds me of a quote Ry, from what you said above.

Philosophy are questions that may never be answered,
Religion are answers that may never be questioned.

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REP THE STUTTER STEP THEN BOMB A LEFT UPON THE FASCISTS!! (ratm)

Like a Hawk...I am watching you, Mr. President.

You don't know what happens to you after you die because you have not yet experienced death. Same goes for me. Simple as that. You believe or have faith that you have no soul and there is no afterlife. I believe or have faith that I have a soul and there is an afterlife. So your arguement is just as idealist as mine and both arguements are driven by faith.

It is not enough to "study a religion". You must practice it. You must purify your body and purify your mind and nervous system in order to be able to reconnect to your true self. If you have not put in the effort you have no right to claim that prayer and meditation lead to nothing because you have not tried to walk down that road and you don't know where it leads.

While I include meditation in my daily routine, what makes you think I am doing nothing else? What makes you think that spiritual development does not fullfill my life and has enormous benefits for all the other things that I do? What makes you think that studying systems of spiritual development hinders my ability to study science? Science and religion go hand in hand. Without one you can not make great progress in the other since you have closed your mind to possibilities.

I wish you luck in your pursuit of a cure for Malaria. I fullheartedly wish that you succeed in your honorable endeavour. I too seek a cure, first for my own suffering and then for the whole of humanity which at present is in a very sick state.

A temple or a church can be the best hospitals.

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"Since both energy and stillness, of themselves, do not have form, it is not through the senses that they may be found, nor understood by intellect alone, although, in nature, both abound." - The Tao Te Ching

again, you are arguing from a complete ideological standpoint...just because I have never died does not mean, I can't know what happens, if you look at it from a completely material standpoint and a biological one, once anything dies all brain activity, cellular activity etc, is also stopped and without it, you cannot function..therefore it stops, your life. My argument is empirical, not based on faith, I can prove that once something dies, there is no activity...you are relying on faith to tell you there is something else...my empirical material evidence tells me otherwise, when a plant dies, it no longer produces fruit or flowers, it is done, when bacteria or mold or fungi die, same thing. Your body is a biochemical machine. Look at braid dead people, no brain activity, none, they are not thinking. THey are as good as dead. I have yet to see evidence of a soul, yet evidence that once you're dead you stop functioning is all around me, how can YOU say that I'm relying on faith, when it's plain to see. It is not I the idealist, it is you. My mind remains as open as empirical evidence allows it to be. If evidence of afterlife does appear in front of me, then perhaps I rethink what I know..however, I doubt that will ever happen.

And I have practiced religion, I have prayed, I have been there and done that. Nothing...I dont' have to try every type of pasta out there to know whether I will like it or not (and believe me I've had plenty, I'm italian), pasta is pasta. I know waht the road to prayer leads to, it's a waste of time. It leads to wishful thinking. There may be a few health benefits to meditation, due to stress relief, but I don't place a spiritual or Godlike aspect to it.

If you spent more time meditating and praying than actually acting then you are wasting your time, in my opinion. HOWEVER, if it makes YOU happy, and makes you live your life in a more fulfilling and joyous manner, that's your boat. And you can obviously study both religoin and science, absolutley, I've done it. I just palce my bets on the sure thing..not the ideological one. It is because of my experience in both and the certainty of one that I choose my path in life. The other thing is that Sciene needs not religion for progress. And religion needs not science to claim anything. Because Religion is based on Faith, and Science is based on Empirical Evidence. The two do not go hand in hand. That is why, the study of ID in biology classes is a complete crock. It's like studying math in history..wrong place for it. Science and religion do not function on the same level. You cannot use science to prove god. Science is used to explain natural phenomena, which is why we are finding cures for diseases, etc.. it was not god or religion or praying. I guarantee you that if it wasn't for science, polio, small pox and other diseases would not have been eradicated. Flu shots would not have been developed, genetic therapy for cancer would not have been developed. People have been praying for millennia, look at what it got us, war, disease, death, murder, rape, why dont' we try something else for a change? yeah...praying...if it floats yoru boat be my guest. I will not put faith in anythign that is not material....prove it to me and then I will believe it. Faith (in a god or whatever), is not logical.

As far as a temple or a church being the best hospital...Show me two people sick with lets say a staph infection...put one in a church the other in a hospital..let's see who gets cured.

obviously, that was me above.

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REP THE STUTTER STEP THEN BOMB A LEFT UPON THE FASCISTS!! (ratm)

Like a Hawk...I am watching you, Mr. President.