Anti-Neocons

It does hinge on competition.

individuals or groups who amass enough of the community's wealth will use it to ensure that they continue to do so

I think this is less achievable than you think. Right now, because of a strong central government, banks being in control, subsidies out the ass, paving the way for cheap labor and all the other economic crimes going on, this is possible. Corporations can conglomerate, lobby for cheap labor in countries where GOVERNMENTS are oppressive to their people, and acquire raw materials cheaper somewhere else than here.

In a truely stateless and Capitalistic society, there are no governments to tell 3rd world nations' people what rights they have and don't - the essentially govern themselves, power structures have been phased out into as small a division as possible meaning no one will ever be strong enough to convince too many people to do one thing, and it becomes more profitable to run a local shop because you don't have to get the materials from as far away. Variety is what keeps nature going. I believe variety is what will keep an economy going.

We humans are lucky too. We've got brains to make conviniences for ourselves. The poorest will simply live off of nature - something that's managable if you have the right information and traditions (just look at.. I dunno.. ALL indigenous cultures). So you're going to have a variety of ways to live (some will work in an office, some in food service, some in making raw materials, some in export/inport, some in theater, etc., etc.) and thus, there's always something someone can do. And if they don't want to do any of that, they can learn to live off of the land.

I'm not saying it's perfect nor that it will even work nor that it's achievable. I'm just saying the paralells between truely unfettered Capitalism and nature are uncanny. I see it as the most natural way to conduct an economy and probably the most effective.

Socialism is unnatural. It attempts to make everyone the same. What do we know about a lack of variety? Extinction.

In the end however, what is attainable and ethical is going to be a Capitalism/Socialism mix. Neither in their pure form appear to be achievable. People are probably just going to have to realize that we can't really be ideologically pure about economy. I only stick up for the Market because it seems more practical. But it in its pure form seems unattainable.

There's a few things we can all agree on, though, right? Revoke the Free Trade Agreements, start revoking corporate charters of those companies engaging in unfair tactics, put heavy regulations on the environment (for now), etc.? I mean, as long as you care, your economic ideology doesn't even matter to an extent.

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Render unto Cesar that which he has rendered unto you - hardship, imprisonment, torture, and eventual death. Fuck Cesar. Let him be hanged.

Let me bring up yet another etirerly different problem with unchecked capitalism.

First of all I kind of agree with Fat Pat, (been a while lol) the reason it is all fucked up right now is because of strong central govs and internatioanl bankers who totally control the money supply yatta yatta yatta. everyone has heard my shpeel on that.

However I agree with Nomad too yet for another reason. In a free for all capitalist system human talants would only amount to squat if they in some way involved in the consumer system. Talents that are not products and don't produce shiy shit to sell will be squeezed out.

Eveything will become commercialized including thing like Oh I don't know Housing, they will become commodities. I totally support some level of a capital gains tax and a minium 2 year occupation of property before dodging it. If you don't have at least that one regulation then the wealthy would buy and sell homes like trading cards. Cost would go out the roof and the land holding elite would have a tenet system.

Artist, philosophers, historians, teachers, musicians, archologist, and the like, all important of course, would dwendal because the pay isn't there. People of these talents would opt for something else in order to acquire a higher standard of living. That or all the art/music and such would have to be made to appeal to the lowest common denominater in order to sell it as products to the mob.

I want anti-trust laws. I want the break up the media monopoly. I want at least some tax money to pay for public education ect. Under pure capitalism this would be shit and we would have all private schools. And GUESS who would come to power and dominate everything even with the central governements removed as Pat said.

dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuu, fucking religious institutions would. That is who and how they would consitrate their wealth and continue rich get richer paradigm. They would own all the land and fund there own to dominate in every relm of business.

no sir so thanks. Give me government regulation. The problem is the governement is full of crooks. The system we have now would work perfectly fine if it wasn't filled with immoral cunt rags. In the times of Jefferson and such we had a very free and prosperous nation. It is possible with this Republic experiment. Just support the Greens. That is the best most realistic start.

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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Read "Jennifer Government" by Max Berry.

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And it's reasons like the above why I believe "In the end however, what is attainable and ethical is going to be a Capitalism/Socialism mix." - By Socialism I mean a government interference in the affairs of the Market when it proves to be ineffective in keeping people alive and keeping life worthwhile. That's essentially the aim of any decent economy. However one can do that is usually fine by me. I just think Socialism in particular's going to make life not as much worth living as it once was. Less innovation.

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Render unto Cesar that which he has rendered unto you - hardship, imprisonment, torture, and eventual death. Fuck Cesar. Let him be hanged.

Capitalism and socialism aren't the only two choices.

Just a few:

Worker-owned cooperatives relying on market allocation

Participatory economies consisting of planned economies by nested regional worker and consumer councils--a "bottom up" command economy, as it were

Gift economies where goods and services are given with no quid pro quo neccesarily implied.

There are more but it's late and I'm tired. My point is, postcapitalist economics isn't limited to traditional Marx-derived socialism.


Oh, and somebody mentioned no innovation in a socialist economy. A valid point but innovation in a capitalist economy isn't always in the right direction. Cures for baldness and erectile disfunction are more profitable than other, more socially beneficial areas of research like a male contraceptive.

that last one was me again...dammit I need to remember to log in!!!

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planet over property
community over competition
well-being over wealth
cooperation over control

the US is a mix of capitalism and socialism lol.

we have been for decades

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This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-deathcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
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"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Yeah but the mix is backwards. Socialists are always approaching their ideology from a worker's point of view and they're right about one thing - their brand of Socialism is different from the governments brand. Their socialism, by and large, is for Corporations and the wealthy. The Communist Party of the United States and other parties approach it from a worker's stand point.

The government's brand is obviously more destructive, but I think they're both fundamentally flawed. I was talking about more of a Socialism where, exactly like you said, there are more regulations for Corporate activities because despite what the law says - they should NOT be considered people. They should only be there to serve the needs of people. Corporations should be slaves to the people, not the other way around. That approach could limit our entrapenural (don't know if I spelled that right) liberties, but it's better than the vital rights people who the Corporatiosn would exploit would lose if the regulations were not in place.

And then when a Republican promotes Capitalism, he or she is trying to eliminate the very "Socialism" that I would want to employ - one that keeps tabs on the activities of Corporate power. The Republican wants Capitalism to that extent. The Socialism that the Republican partakes in when his company recieves fat subsidy checks, the Socialism that the Republican partakes in when his or her government unstabilizes a reigion so the raw materials are less expensive and the cheap labor is cheaper and more desperate, the Socialism that Republican partakes in when her stock takes a plunge and all the pensions her workers had are taken care of by the government? Oh that Socialism is fine! Yeah, them Commies had some great ideas of how to keep the powerful in power!

That's exactly the Socialism I despise and would want taken out. And that's exactly where I think Capitalism needs to thrive.

So obviously, when I said a mix of Capitalism and Socialism, I wasn't saying "yeah.. stick with what we got". But I think you knew that. Smart ass.

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Render unto Cesar that which he has rendered unto you - hardship, imprisonment, torture, and eventual death. Fuck Cesar. Let him be hanged.