Anti-Neocons

I think.....
Oswald killed JFK, on his own.
The Catholics have had nothing whatsoever to do with...
Nazism (yes, I know of the post WW2 aid from a few)
communism
zionists

Catholics are Christians that worship Jesus, and try to follow his teachings.
Catholic preists, nuns & missionaries have done a helluva lot of good and saved the lives of millions, while making many more lives a little better, not necessarily through conversion or preaching, but simply by sacrifice and helping. I think it's important to acknowlege and praise good deeds.
There have been some bad apples, but you'll find them everywhere, in every group. To use them to smear the whole religion is unfair and reactionary.
I don't know that much about Jesuits, but I ain't buying that they're pushing some Machiavellian, manipulative agenda.

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You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

Hi Ry,

So who (let's see the names at the top) really pulls the strings? Surely it is the bankers - and of course they tend to be both jewish and zionists.

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Tribulation

I remember Kennedy tried to put US backed cash (not unconstitutional zionist Federal Reserve cash) into circulation and he was shortly thereafter murdered. Looks like the bankers got a little upset

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Tribulation

No PNAC was a carbon copy of the Israel Clean Break Straegy papers and it was written by the same peole and Bush had nothing to do with it. His brother Signed it but had no part in writing it. It came straight out of Israel by the Jews listed in Ry's post.

JFK and RFK were killed by people most profitting form the MIC and even back then they had Zionist allies a lot of it had to do with JFK trying to get rid of the Federal Reserve and for not allowing Israel to get nukes.

The ZIonists were not "part" of it They are IT the other factions are what are just "part" of it. Zionism is the core of this mess. Israel will have us strike Iran. There can be no doubt as to whose interests are at stake there.

No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Citizenship_Project
"The group is an initiative of the New Citizenship Project, a non-profit 501c3 organization that has been funded by the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the John M. Olin Foundation and the Bradley Foundation."

and to the above reply... Hitler would never had come to power unless he did not go directly before the Church and inform them that once he is dictator Catholicism was to be the only reckognized religion.



And I didnt think anything of the Jesuits either untill I started looking into them.

Look throughout history the Catholic Church has been guilty of the worst crimes, are we to believe they just stopped and no longer conspire?

Look into Pope John Paul the IIs assassination attempt.
Better yet look into his predecessors how only managed 30 days of pope-doom. He was killed by order of the Black Pope.

Keep investigating the Zionists, it will eventually lead to 1 man... the Black Pope. But hurry up hes stepping down in 08.
Thats right even though its a life-long appointment hes stepping down and going into hiding.

Look at how after Pope JPII assassination attempt he went after the Jesuits and kept them in check for a long while. The Jesuits hated JPII, its common knowledge.

See how the Black Pope suffered a massive stroke when he was caught up to 2 months later.

Untill you look into Cardinal Spellman you cant knock the connection I have made to JFKs assassination that leads back to the Catholic Church.

Fuck, I just had an f-ing dissertation zapped by a f-ing keystroke. Ima summarize my point. I'm half way through "the Money Masters" video from the video section of this site. I've been interest in the research of Money for about 7 years now, actively, and am blown away by the cogent, pricipled, kickass presentation of the film. The movie provides explicit quotes from nearly every leader/ruler of stature in the history of the western hemisphere. Their statements leave nothing to speculation. They state outright that the Money Trust/Central Bankers/Money Changers are the greatest threats to their country's sovereignty and mankind as a whole. The video captures the magnitude of leader's plight and their quotes acknowledge a respect and an intense hatred for this group. The narrator doesn't come out screaming "Zionism," but illustrates and chronicles who has been behind the scenes for centuries trying to deceive and defraud the public and usurp power from country's rightful ruler. Guess who turns out to be the culprit Zionists. To my knowledge there is not anything out there legitmately making this arguement for the Illuminati theory. I have no example of a quote from someone of Napoleon or Lincolns stature saying "Beware the Black Pope and his nebulous network of Illuminati alcolytes. The Black Pope to me sound like some comic book shit that people who prefer an exciting story over factual info would be drawn to. I do my best to be objective with all this info and am not out to simply support my position but rather learn. At this point in my research at can't find anything solid to base the Illuminati theory on. The Zionist theory has overwhelming support and the benefit of being able to watch these fuckers try to eke out there plans in plain sight. The write fucking papers IN ISRAEL outlining their plans. which then become our foreign policy. That's influence. The Illuminati is an amorpous group of evil, like Ry said, that is stringed together with speculation and unverifiable shit. I highly recommend the video "The Money Masters" as a solid defense of the Zionist theory and would welcome any criticism of its material. And lastly, there is no God, there is no Devil, and no one with the fucking sense to pull off the shit that the Illuminati is credited with could believe so either.

Orwells ghost wrote:


The Catholics didn't have much influence or power in Germany in the 30's.
Hitler spent a short time as youth in a Catholic monastery, he didn't care for it. He used religion as a tool, but marginally. He did not treat the Catholic (or any other) church with much deference during his time in power. He was contemptuous of the institution and suspicious of any gathering of unmonitored groups of people, the same as any totalitarian regime.
The two men most responsible for Hitler's rise to power were Ernst Roem and Rhinhard Heidrich. Believe me, there's no shortage of written history on this chapter.



Such as? The inquisition for example? That was a localized anamoly in Western Europe during a specific period in time. And as for any others, don't confuse other Christian religions with Catholics. All had their extremist outbursts, and still do. The only consiracy I'd begin to believe (if it could be called that) would be the Catholics consolidating power by using popular opinion as leverage to influence monarchs, and retaining exclusivity in education and literacy. But these things aren't compatible with the scriptures and I don't believe it was a widespread, fixed policy that most Catholic clergy were privy to and consciously (and covertly) scheming.
Todays Catholics are IMO the most liberal and least doctrinal, compared to the Christian offshoots. You won't find that many Catholics that'll defend the hardline dogma of the Popes, like condemnation of homosexuality, abortion and contraception. And remember that all the popes consistently condemn wars, profiteering and human rights abuses. That's not fitting in with world domination conspiracy orgs.



I've followed it since it happened. As far as I can tell, the Turkish guy that shot him was a kook. Some say the KGB put him up to it, I dunno, but he looks like a kook to me. There are kooks in the world, lots of 'em. And they have access to guns.

_________________
You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

Ah, again that good ol' chestnut the Illuminati!

I can't speak for anyone else but if you want my own opinion, having spent well over a decade and a half ploughing through the info/disinfo out there on secret societies and their doctrines, philosophies, histories and practices, here goes...

There seem to be many schools of thought as to who "pulls the strings from behind the scenes", including but not limited to the following (which in my view are the avenues of research trod most often and in the most scholarly way by most researchers - although scholarly does not necessarily imply intelligently), in no particular order:

1 - Extraterrestrials and/or their descendents/genetically hybridised creations, evidenced primarily by specific aspects of the current UFO phenomena (eg. surgical removal of implanted devices of extraterrestrial isotopic composition and construction/phenomenology from alleged abductees by Dr. Roger Lear, etc.), and as yet unexplained correlations between diparate cultures in their mythologies which point to extraterrestrial involvement in human affairs to this end (cf. Celtic, Mesopotamian, pre-dynastic Egyptian, Norse, Siberian, African (esp. Dogon) and North, Central & South American indigenous mythologies, and the detailed and to this day unexplained accounts in the Rig Veda, Puranas, Mahabaratha, Bhaghavad Gita and othet ancient Indian & Tamil texts, to name a few)

2 - Trans/interdimensional beings with no physical form who have coexisted with humans on this planet as long as humans have existed and/or may once have been human - again, see the above mythological and cultural correspondences, as well as numerous mystical works of the Renaissance and the "Classical" period (esp. those of John Dee, medieval and renaissance alchemists and the Hermetic Tradition etc.)

3 - The Vatican (the so-called "Black Pope", variously through the Jesuit Order, Club of Rome, Opus Dei etc.)

4 - Occult initiatic societies such as the O.T.O, the A:.A:., Rosicrucian Order, Knights Templar, Illuminised Freemasonry (higher degrees), and various other "Solar Cults" and their ancillaries

5 - Military Industrial Complex / Corporate / Governmental interests and ancillaries (UN, CFR, Trilateral Commision, Bilderberg, RIIA etc.)

6 - Royal Families of Europe (esp. "British" and Dutch royal lines, which in any case are heavily interrelated by marriage - note that I place British in inverted commas since they are actually of German descent and their name is actually Sachs Coburg Goethe)

7 - Extremist Zionist interests

Note that I do not include the "Illuminati" in this list - the chief reason, briefly (expounded upon at length below however) is that the epithet "Illuminati" has been variously applied to all the above.

It is important to note that theories pertaining to the above as being our secret rules are not necessarily mutually exclusive - in fact, as many here well know, the above discrete categories very often overlap with each other in the sense of "grand unified conspiracy theories" often taking ALL the above into account and drawing connections between them, causal or otherwise.

The "evidence" for any of the above ranges from the concrete (for certain ASPECTS of each) to the circumstancial, and I have yet to see a CONCLUSIVE argument made for any of them, although many of the arguments can be extremely persuasive.

Organisations under categories 3 - 7 have all at various times and through various means expressed interest in world "government" (however you wish to define the term) either in manifestoes, literary articles both for private and public circulation, or the recorded and confirmed comments of their members (not to mention the abundant evidence in many cases that their actions are geared toward this motive), whereas evidence for this interest for the postulated parties under categories 1 & 2 is purely circumstantial, hence my brief outline of the indications thereof.

Now to the question of the Illuminati. I won't bother reiterating what has been said here before by countless others as well as myself on a couple of occasions on this forum - the acknowledged history of the Ancient Illuminated Seers Of Bavaria (cf. Weishaupt ca.1776) is there for the perusal of anyone with a browser; let's just look at the question of their CONTINUED existence and the MERIT OF CONTINUED DEBATE OVER THIS SUBJECT logically and operationally, shall we?

Firstly, the theme that runs through all theories of overarching and all powerful secret societies is that their members comprise the economic, political, spiritual and social "elites", and that as such they represent a highly concentrated consolidation of POWER (be it economic power, military power, technological power, spiritual power, the power to mould and shape mass consciousness, or all the above). This has a natural consequence for our discussion:

IF a secret society DOES exist, its primary strength is that, not to flog a dead horse, it is SECRET, and exerts its influence freely because it is difficult if not impossible to PROVE that it exists.
Further, by extension, it would be extremely beneficial to any such society not only to maintain secrecy, but also to do anything and everything possible (which, given the elite status and consolidated power of its members, is a WHOLE LOT) to muddy the waters and make investigation of their organisation impossible by planting a sufficient number of "red herrings" in the Historical, Sociological and Cultural corpus so as to leave the investigator so confounded with an overabundance of "leads" and "associations" (from one individual to the next, from one ideology to the next, and from one organisation to the next) that any such investigation will eventually lead (if anywhere) to a complete fiction (if not total sociopathy) as a conclusion.
This tactic HAS been used by those secret societies for which there IS incontrovertible evidence all the way back to the first shamans who held sway over their palaeolithic communities by their superior knowledge of the cycles of heavenly bodies, coercing offerings from these communities in order that the sun rise the next day and the sky not fall (and no - I'm not knocking Shamanism, but given human nature I'll be willing to bet that such things occurred, and continue!).

Thus, we can safely assume that IF such a secret society DOES exist, and its influence is as widespread, insidious and cunning as is said by many of the proponents of such theories, it is unlikely in the current state of affairs (in which the average Joe Public finds himself virtually powerless individually in the face of consolidated elite interests) that any information unearthed concerning the existence or machinations of such a society will be free of disinformation. This makes such musings counterproductive at the least and undermining of sanity at the worst.

IF, on the other hand, no such all powerful secret brotherhood exists, and we are simply dealing with a number organisations (3 - 7) with innumerable levels on which they are variously in cahoots or in opposition to each other politically and otherwise, such musings on the "Illuminati" et. al. is simply an enormous waste of time and energy that could better be put to use battling the VISIBLE conspiracies all around us (again, variously, 3-7 depending on which affronts you the most).


Therefore, when speaking of an Illuminati (for which the definitions include all the above and many more besides, and therefore CANNOT be SPECIFICALLY identified as any one group) or any other "secret" order in such terms, we are in fact being led down the garden path since it is HIGHLY unlikely that incontrovertible "proof" will be found among the morass of disinformation in the case that they DO exist, and we are wasting a monumental amount of time and TURNING OUR BACKS on REAL criminals with REAL agendas for global tyranny if they DO NOT exist - precisely what would be highly desirable to such groups.



Consider:-

Which of the parties 3-7 under consideration have DEMONSTRABLY AND ADMITTEDLY under their control the abundance of the world's media, military/industrial and most importantly MONETARY resources? The (un)lucky number 7 - the ZIONISTS.

Which, of all the categories 3-7, has the most OPENLY (i.e. there for all to read) genocidal, despotic and GLOBAL aspirations? Which has an OPENLY pseudo-religious ideology founded on an absolute conviction of "racial" superiority (and the subhuman status of all others) and destiny to variously destroy and subjugate all other races, eventually to impose their dominion over the whole planet? Again, the ZIONISTS (cf. the Talmud).

Which of the above has whole LEGAL SYSTEMS drafted for their protection against anyone who so much as raises a voice of criticism against them? The ZIONISTS.

Which of the above conspiracies has the overwhelming preponderance of VERIFIABLE data and historical FACT in suppost of its existence? Yup, you guessed it, the ZIONISTS.

Which of the above conspiracies has its symbology and esoteric spiritual doctrines most firmly enmeshed in the practices, codes and other supposed worldwide secret societies ?(such as Freemasonry, which by the way is NOT as most think predominantly based upon Egyptian symbology, but upon the bastardisation thereof by the "Judaic" so-called "Hyksos" dynasties which overran Egypt in the twilight of that great civilisation and co-opted its esoteric lore, combining it with the Babylonian and Akkadian) Again, ZIONISM.

If you were to remove all extremist Zionists from the face of the Earth, you can be sure that not only would we and our children live in a safer, saner world, but that any "Illuminati" that existed before this purge would have a very hard time indeed continuing to hold any power over any of us, and would be that much more easily exposed and righly annihilated. IF they exist.

In a nutshell, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

As I have said before, I'll take a VISIBLE, TANGIBLE, MORTAL enemy that breathes, bleeds and has a NAME AND ADDRESS any day of the week over an INVISIBLE, INTANGIBLE, SEMI-MYTHICAL one.

So let's all just grow up and not waste any more time chasing shadows shall we? The criminals that wage war against all humanity laugh at such foolishness.

F