Anti-Neocons

Oh believe me I have plenty of health problems, and I would love insurance. I've often contemplated joining the military just to get benefits and get out of this hole I'm in. (I couldn't even afford JC when I was younger so I'm a 25 year old non-college graduate. Thanks to my grandparents and Pell grants however i can afford to go to school now, 7 years later.) I just think it's naive to hand over control of health care to the government (especially at it's current cost) and pretend like that is going to solve something. Look at France, they insure everyone at half the price we pay to insure the portion of people that are insured here. But their economy is collapsing underneath it's self. How much do you think a federal ran single payer system would seriously cost in our country right now? 1.1 trillion equates to about $3,600 per citizen, that seems hardly adequate to me. (1,100,000,000,000/307,331,847) I could spend that much money on health care as fast as I could book the appointments. Not to mention what kind of loopholes this could create for doctors and the pharmecuetical industries. What is the point of insuring everyone if the dollar becomes devalued so bad that no one can even afford food anymore? Single payer systems are just another step towards a totalitarian welfare state imo.

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"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." -Einstein

You're just not even trying.

The free market isn't what allowed companies that make up the pharmaceutical, insurance, and medical industry to grow beyond their power. Bad legislation and basic rule breaking allowed it.

To call this free market is incredibly misguided.

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Is your view of the world in sync with what you 'know' about the world?

"The state breaks everything and then blames freedom.
The state destroys everything and then blames those who interact voluntarily for that destruction."
-- Stefan Molyneux

Perhaps my definition of the free market is different from yours. I would call bribing the government to be part of the free market, because in the free market, one would be allowed to do so. In a perfect world (A socialist world) government would not be allowed to take money from 3rd parties at any time, for any reason. Not for campaigning, or when in office, but because we have a free market (For the most part), corporations are allowed to seize power.
Take the federal reserve for instance. A private for profit corporation. If the bankers didn't have so much money with which to bribe so many representatives to vote for it, and even the president, then we wouldn't have the federal reserve today. This is all due to the free market.



The idea of marxism is to look out for your fellow man. In my opinion, it's the perfect system, in a world of imperfect subjects. The only reason it doesn't work is because people are greedy. I see this as a flaw in people, not the system. Whereas capitalism, the entire system is based on screwing over whoever is beneath you.



But none of this would be true. The only reason prices are so high is because the insurance companies have been in cahoots with the medical industry. Price fixing is taking place everywhere. In Japan, the government tells doctors what the cost will be, not the other way around. This is what we need to do. It's a fact that Canada spends less per capita on health care than the U.S. by a rather large margin. 1.1 trillion sounds like a large number (It would probably be even larger) But it would be less than the combined total of money people pay to insurance companies.

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Obama - Proving that a black president can be JUST as bad as a white one
Debt is the key to the shackles of Slavery, and the bankers are the keymasters

I'm not entirely against price fixing, or at least making a cap. That's a whole entirely different thing from using money that comes from either A)the taxpayers or B)the Fed. to fund people's operations. If people decide they want a single payer system, it needs to be done on a state by state basis, so people can decide if single payer or private health insurance is appropriate for their individual states. I really don't see how government funded health care would make it any harder for insurance companies/doctors/pharmeceutical manufacturers etc to screw people over. All it would require is some lobbyists passing more ridiculous laws attached to defense bills.

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"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." -Einstein

Bribing the govt is illegal. Free market doesn't include illegal practices, they just happen because of the lack of regulation on govt. If illegal govt activity goes unchecked, then it doesn't matter what form of economy functions under it -- everyone is still getting screwed.

I totally do not understand why you think it should be ok to bribe the govt under free market. That totally invalidates free market.

_________________
Is your view of the world in sync with what you 'know' about the world?

"The state breaks everything and then blames freedom.
The state destroys everything and then blames those who interact voluntarily for that destruction."
-- Stefan Molyneux

Why We Need Government-Run Healthcare (video):
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=19597&p=131362#p131362

Marxism is only totalitarian in nature because the government would own production. But the thing is, that if it were true marxism, then the people would be the ones to control it, and decide what to produce, and what the people need. Workers would get paid fair wages, and prices would not rise because you wouldn't have somebody taking anything off the top. There would be no markup. I don't know why people think the free market lowers prices. All the free market does is lead to monopolies. Marxism is about breaking down the beariers raised by the rich, because with capitalism, you end up with the rich owning most of the money supply. In America, the richest 10% own 90% of ALL the money.



Bribing the government is completely legal, and happens everyday. Corporations donate to political "Parties" by the millions to be used on an individuals campaign. There are all kinds of loopholes. Hire a congressman onto a board of directors and pay them by the million to do nothing. Nothing wrong with a second job right?

If you put any rules on a free market, then it's not a free market is it? With a truly free market you get situations like Rockefeller, who would lower prices at a gas station far lower than the competition, then when his competition ran out of business, he would raise the price back up even higher. This is the only result of the "Free market"

With a free market you get "Free trade" which leads to people overseas working in the worst conditions, instead of "Fair Trade" where workers are paid fair wages, and have rights. With a free market you get media companies joining together to form media conglomerates that are ultimately controlled by a few people. The free market, is NOT and never has been a good thing.




I'm definitely against the fed printing money, but it's not the same thing as an extra tax, where the money is going to fund a war, or to fund some B.S. that isn't going to go anywhere. It's tax that you will be able to use. If one state had single payer, any visitor to that state could possibly get turned away, otherwise they would get flooded with people moving to that one state. It needs to be country wide.

In Canada, they have FAR less fraud in this area than America does. Under the current system, if somebody has good insurance, they will run so many unneccessary tests on them, because they know it will get them more money. In Canada these thigns are regulated. This is where you get stupid slogans like "The government will decide what kind of care you get" and it's true, but only so you don't get some asshole giving you a blood test when your feet are sore.

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Obama - Proving that a black president can be JUST as bad as a white one
Debt is the key to the shackles of Slavery, and the bankers are the keymasters

You're absolutely correct. I'm a socialist that admits his prefferred political system will never work. Like I said, it's a perfect system with imperfect subjects, therefore it will never work. People will always want to have nicer things than his neighbor. There will always be people wanting to screw over others for personal gain. To me this is not a flaw in the system, but in people. Including myself.

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Obama - Proving that a black president can be JUST as bad as a white one
Debt is the key to the shackles of Slavery, and the bankers are the keymasters