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Anti-NeoconsRys2sense |
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Drew J
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT  Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:15 am |
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Joined: Jan 9th, 2007
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His convction was overturned in an ISRAELI COURT. If that won't do it, what the fuck will? Even the Zionists have admitted his innocence. I can just hear Jon Stewart the Zionist hypocrit cheering this on inside his mind.
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Buck the neocons. Fuck 'em too.
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Drew J
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:36 pm |
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Joined: Jan 9th, 2007
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Quote: Ockham's Razor will come to the conclusion that the "official story" is not UNreasonable No it isn't. Here's proof that it's not not unreasonable. Atta had a Mossad double. viewtopic.php?t=2536Last time I checked, a person can't be in two places at once. Stick your propaganda okay. You know where.
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Buck the neocons. Fuck 'em too.
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Irie Dave
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:53 pm |
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| Smashing neocons |
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Joined: Dec 19th, 2006
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Yeah I thought this person was semi-serious by the tone of his first post but there's so much propaganda and intellecutal dishonesty in that response I don't know where to start or if it's even worth my time. I'll point out one obvoius thing about the so-called Holocaust as Drew has about 9/11 though. The thing about the lampshades, just like the claims that Iraq had WMDs, the lampshade story was not the result of a mistake it was the result of lies. And some of the people in the Phil Donahue show, proponents of the Holocaust story were still promoting it and saying that they saw the lampshades themselves, thus they are lying. And they said that Mengele was literally at every camp at the same time personally greeting every Jewish inmate at each one, or at least two at once. If there were a serious trial of whether Germany was guilty of the Holocaust and the defense exposed all these lies during witness examination and then pointed out the stuff about the doors not having locks and opening from the insides and not having any traces of zyklon-b unlike the chambers that are admitted as delousing areas there is no way any honest juror could say that the Holocaust is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And also I think you can sue people if you can prove that they made false accusations about you and since it's provable that's happened here these people would be viable for that. That's why they've had to change the law to where you can't even research the Holocaust from a critical perspective in some countries.
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"A higher level of cannabinoid activity in the human biochemical distribution in the biosphere may be necessary to prevent human extinction" - Dr. Robert Melamede, PhD
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Drew J
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:07 pm |
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Joined: Jan 9th, 2007
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Quote: Shermer pulled that out of his ass. He hasn't analyzed every single claim that Cole has made, and he doesn't really have to. You're damn right he does. David Cole said in the video, "History isn't about making crass generalizations. If you're going to make claims, you have to prove it." Quote: Historiography isn't generally done by adding up all the individual factors like that, it's about gathering evidence You just contradicted yourself. Each piece of evidnece IS an 'individual factor' in determing the ultimate theory about something. Quote: The thing about the door, if it is even true, is just a small anomaly. IT PROVES IT WASN'T A GAS CHAMBER BUILT TO LOCK PEOPLE IN. How is that a small anamoly while it's a big part of the extermination theory and when it's a big reason for gouging Swiss and German banks for six million corpses that don't exist? Quote: Perhaps they removed the locks to prevent them from being re-used, etc. This is not history or science. This is speculation. This is an ad hoc hypothesis and it is a logical fallacy. Quote: Yeah, but that's not what the Holocaust is. This is what makes this a form of genocide denial. Even Turkish people who deny the Armenian genocide maintain that bad things happened to the Armenians, they just say it was because of war, etc. A genocide implies intent by a state to exterminate a race of people. In the version of history Zundel, Cole and Smith promote, this didn't happen. That is what makes it a denial rather than revisionism.
There was no mass extermination plan. The Wanssee protocols don't count as they are discredited propaganda. http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=439479Quote: Also, the lampshade thing proves nothing for the same reason the door thing proves nothing. Yes it does. It proves that people are liars and Jews have admitted that lamps, soaps, and shrunken heads are outright lies. The door thing as shown earlier does prove something. It proves there was that many less gas chambers than previously thought. David Cole illusrated the point that once it was claimed that 22 camps had gas chambers. 22. Now it's not even a handful. Clearly as the number decreases, the claim that there was a mass extermination plan seems less credible. Quote: There is controversy about how the Holocaust took place, and I mean fiery controversy to the point that historians were calling some accounts of the Holocaust "apologia" for the Nazis until Hilberg (an Austrian Jewish exile who obviously had no reason to defend the Nazis) came along and defended the account of some of the historians who had been slandered. But nobody goes to this extent based on lampshades and bizarre doors.
Hillberg also claimed there was a mass extermination of Jews at Treblinka. And that was one more thing proven to never happen. Too many numerical and scientific exaggerations have been debunked already by guys like Zundel, Cole, Rudolf, etc. You need to take a serious read of some of David Cole's key questions. I will get to them right now. Here is part of a debate I had with some a Jew a long time ago. Quote: Here are some ariel photos of Auschwitz-Birkenau. http://www1.yadvashem.org/exhibitions/a ... raphs.htmlSupposedly, these photos present proof of a gas chamber or gas chambers. [img] http://www1.yadvashem.org/exhibitions/a ... hoto01.jpg[/img] May 31th, 1944 An aerial photo of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp was taken by taken by the 60 Photo-reconnaissance Squadron of the South African Air Force operating from southern Italy on 31/5/1944 for bombing intelligence purposes. The photoreconnaissance plane was actually looking for the nearby IG Farben war production factory and other war production facilities in the area. The photo material of this sortie was shared with the US 15th Air Force, which later bombed the IG Farben factory. Two CIA researchers reinterpreted the photo in 1978, and they inserted the captions and arrows on the photo. The arrows are pointing at several groups of inmates inside the camp. Also visible are several railcars next to the ramp. Smoke billowing from the chimney of crematorium V indicates that people were exterminated in the gas chamber beneath it shortly before. Click on the dots below for photos from the Album depicting events which took place at those points.  The three principal camps in the Auschwitz complex, as photographed on June 26th, 1944 by a Mosquito plane from the South African Air force’s 60 Photo Recon Squadron (Sortie no. 60PR/522). This photograph gives a comprehensive view of the 3 camps. We can also see IG Farben factory, the industrial area next to Camp I, Oswiecim town and the swamps next to Birkenau, into which were thrown the ashes of those murdered in the camp.  Enlargement of a section of an aerial photograph taken on August 25th, 1944 by a Mosquito plane from the South African Air force’s 60 Photo Recon Squadron (Sortie no. 60PR/694). We can see many details from the area of gas chambers II and III, and the railway platform. We can clearly see the roofs of the gas chambers, the crematoria above them, a train by the platform and groups of prisoners on their way to the gas chambers. Note the open gate at the entrance to gas chamber II and the cultivated garden in the courtyard. On the top right is the sewage plant which appears in photograph 358 in the album documenting the camp’s construction.  Bombs being dropped over the gas chambers at Birkenau. Photographed by an American B-24 bomber from the 464th Bombardment Group during the bombing of the IG Farben factory on September 13th, 1944 (Sortie no. 464BG/4M97). The bombs in the photograph continued on their ballistic route and hit the factory. A number of stray bombs hit Birkenau too and caused light damage. The formation of the camp is clearly visible, as is the train standing by the platform.  Enlargement of a section of a photograph of Birkenau in the snow taken by an American F-5 plane from the 5th Photographic Reconnaissance Group of the 15th Air Force on December 12th, 1944 (Sortie no. 5PG/15SG/994). Further to an order issued by Himmler at the beginning of November to halt the gassings, the extermination installations were dismantled in November-December 1944, as can be seen in the photograph. We can see the ruins of Crematorium IV, which was destroyed in the Sonderkommando uprising of October 7th, 1944, and the decorative gardens planted at the end of each block in the BII area of the camp, which remained there throughout. I see no proof of those being gas chambers other than some caption that was inserted on it. I don't care how many people say the earth is flat, you have to get to a point where you can actually oberseve the earth. Consequently, it's more easier to tell if something was a gas chamber by propery observing and inspecting it. That can only happen when you're down on earth and not when you are in the sky. This does not prove that one room you showed me in the FREE BOOKS ON THE ILLUMINATI topic, Krema I, was a gas chamber. These photos do not prove six million died. Not even an extermination theorist Raul Hillberg can find six million. David Cole raised some interesting questions. http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gc46-origi.htmlQuote: (1) What explanation can there be for the low levels of traces, and absence of blue staining, in the homicidal gas chambers?
(2) If one suggests that the Zyklon traces in the homicidal gas chambers have been "weathered away", how can one explain the traces and staining on the OUTSIDE of the delousing complexes...traces which have NOT been weathered away after fifty years?
(3) It has been suggested that the amount of Zyklon B needed to kill people, even cumulative millions of people, would not leave traces as strong as the amount needed to kill lice in the delousing chambers. But when we factor in the Zyklon B traces still existing in the camp barracks and offices, we see that infrequent gassings will still leave SOME traces. Thus, we have the traces in the camp offices and barracks, which reveal what levels of traces would remain, fifty years after the fact, in rooms which were gassed infrequently.
Then we have the delousing chambers, which reveal what levels of traces would remain, fifty years after the fact, in rooms which were gassed frequently. Can it not be expected that the levels of traces in the homicidal gas chambers, while perhaps not being as high as those in the delousing rooms, would AT LEAST be substantially higher than the traces in the buildings which were only fumigated infrequently? Yet the traces in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 are not markedly higher than the office and barracks traces. Does this not suggest that the traces which DO exist in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 come from the same fumigation routine that all the other buildings went through?
(4) Once one has fashioned an explanation for the minute traces and no blue staining in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 at Auschwitz, how does one THEN explain the HIGH levels of Zyklon B traces and DEEP, FLOOR-TO-CEILING blue staining in three of the four Majdanek gas chambers? Far fewer people are said to have been killed at Majdanek than at Auschwitz. The four Majdanek gas chambers would never have had to handle the workload of Kremas 1,2 and 3. Yet whereas Kremas 1,2 and 3 have only minute traces and no blue staining, three of the four Majdanek gas chambers have heavy traces and deep blue staining. How could gassing a GREATER amount of people (at Auschwitz) leave minute traces and no blue staining, yet gassing a much SMALLER amount (at Majdanek) leave heavy traces and deep blue staining?
(5) The gas chambers at the Majdanek camp not only have heavy Zyklon B blue stains on the INSIDE, but also on the OUTSIDE walls, as well. What could account for this? The delousing facilities at Birkenau have heavy blue staining on their outside walls, staining which is said to come from the mattresses which were propped up against the outside walls and beaten after delousing (to rid them of Zyklon B residue). Do the heavy blue stains on the outside walls of the Majdanek gas chambers therefore suggest that these rooms were used as delousing facilities? Isn't the building which contains the gas chambers labeled the "Bath and Disinfection" complex? If, as with Auschwitz, it is said that gassing people wouldn't leave blue stains on the INSIDE walls of a homicidal gas chamber, how then, at Majdanek, could gassing people leave heavy blue stains not only on the INSIDE walls but also on the OUTSIDE ones as well?
(6) To sum up the Zyklon B issue, we can take an overview of the Nazi gas chambers and their respective states RE Zyklon B traces:
Krema 1 (Auschwitz Main Camp): Minute traces, no blue staining
Krema 2 (Auschwitz-Birkenau): Minute traces, no blue staining
Krema 3 (Auschwitz-Birkenau): Minute traces, no blue staining.
Majdanek gas chambers 1, 3 and 4: Heavy traces, heavy blue staining (on inside and outside walls).
Dachau gas chamber: No traces, no blue staining.
Mauthausen gas chamber: No traces, no blue staining.
The revisionist explanation for the above is:
Kremas 1, 2 and 3 were not used as gas chambers; -- the only Zyklon B they saw was from the routine camp fumigations.
Majdanek rooms 1, 3 and 4 were delousing rooms, like the ones at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
The Dachau gas chamber was a shower.
The Mauthausen gas chamber was a shower
What theory can be offered which explains the wildly divergent states of the gas chambers re Zyklon B traces, while still supporting the concept of mass homicidal gassings at these camps?
Oh you'll love this question. Quote: (9) It is claimed that there were four holes on the roofs of Kremas 2 and 3, which served as Zyklon B induction holes. The best piece of evidence that these holes ever existed is found in the U.S. aerial photos taken of Auschwitz during the war. Is there any discrepancy between the size of these holes as depicted in the U.S. aerial photos, and the size of the holes as depicted on the model of the Krema 2 gas chamber (on display at the Auschwitz State Museum and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum), the size as theorized by Jean-Claude Pressac in his book "Auschwitz; Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers", the size as depicted in the movie "Triumph of the Spirit" (which recreated a gassing at Krema 2), and the size as described over the decades by eyewitnesses? Indeed, can it be said that the holes as depicted in the aerial photos are ridiculously large...larger than what would have been needed for pouring in a can of Zyklon B gas?
Answer: more than likely. Here's some more good ones. Quote: (10) Why are the four holes not present today in the roof slab of Krema 2? The roof slab, though collapsed, is intact and both the top and underside of the roof are still visible. There are two crudely chiseled holes at opposite ends of the roof slab (one is more like a huge crack than a hole), but the other two holes are non existent, and the underside of the roof, with the two-by-fours lining the ceiling still visible, shows no sign of two holes having ever been present. There are also no traces of the two holes on the top of the roof. How can the absence of the two holes, and any traces of the two holes, be explained?
(11) What circumstances would produce the Krema 2 roof slab as we now see it, with two holes visible and the other two non-existent? If the Nazis attempted to erase the traces of the roof holes, why did they stop after two? Why would they expend much effort to erase all traces of two of the roof holes, then not make any effort to erase the two which survived the demolition?
(12) Could the still existing roof holes have been added after the liberation, by the Soviets or Poles? Doesn't Pressac admit that these two holes don't correspond with the positions of the holes in the aerial photos (Pressac says that this might be because the roof "shifted" during demolition, but even if the roof "shifted", that wouldn't account for why these holes, which were supposed to run in a straight line down the middle of the roof, have changed their positions, and are no longer in a straight line down the middle of the intact roof slab)? These holes are in incredibly bad condition; their edges are consistently rough, with not an inch of smoothness left. And they are no longer circular. They look like someone took a jack-hammer and roughly hammered through the roof slab. It is explained by Auschwitz State Museum officials that the demolition of the roof is what accounts for the awful condition of the holes (that is, they USED to be round and smooth until the demolition).
But if one observes the wreckage of the "undressing room" roof slab, which was similarly destroyed and is now in even worse shape than the gas chamber roof slab, one sees the remains of the undressing room front ventilation hole, which is still round and smooth even after the demolition and fifty years of laying around as rubble. Why did the undressing room roof hole survive intact, while the two still existing gas chamber roof holes emerged from the demolition without even the slightest trace that they had once been round and smooth? If we consider that the two still existing gas chamber roof holes don't correspond with their supposed position on the roof, can we theorize that MAYBE these two holes were chiseled in after the liberation? It is now admitted by the Auschwitz State Museum that the Soviets, after liberation, drilled four "Zyklon B induction holes" in the roof of Krema 1 (Auschwitz Main Camp). One needn't assume bad faith on the part of the Soviets (they might have honestly believed that they were "restoring" the roof to the state in which it had once been), but this act clearly establishes that the Soviets DID in fact drill post-liberation "Zyklon B induction holes" in roofs that, at that time, had none. Is it possible that this accounts for the two sloppy "Zyklon B induction holes" in the roof slab of the Krema 2?
Can you believe it? The holes magically shift. It's a miracle. Quote: (14) If one is to believe that four Zyklon B induction holes were at one time in the roof slab of Krema 2, it must be assumed that the Nazis went through great pains to meticulously hide any traces of at least two of those holes. Yet we are told that when the Soviets, after liberation, "reopened" the Zyklon B induction holes in the Krema 1 gas chamber state (at the time of liberation, it was being used as an air-raid shelter), they know exactly where to "reopen" the four holes because the traces where these holes had been were STILL VISIBLE. The idea that the Zyklon B induction hole traces were still visible is supported by the Auschwitz State Museum officials, and by author Jean-Claude Pressac. Why didn't the Nazis attempt to "cover-up" THOSE holes, especially keeping in mind that the Krema 1 gas chamber had been abandoned as a gas chamber AT LEAST a year before liberation, giving the Nazis more than enough time to erase the traces.
The Nazis were apparently able to do an incredibly good job of erasing the hole traces in the Krema 2 roof, even though time was short (the Nazis knew the Soviets were advancing, and they were busy making preparations to abandon the camp), yet we are told that they did NOT attempt to likewise cover up the hole traces in the Krema 1 roof slab, even though they had at least a year to do so. Why would the Nazis do such a fastidiously good job of hiding the existence of Zyklon B induction holes in a roof that they were then going to dynamite (Krema 2), yet allow the hole traces to remain in a roof that was left intact for the advancing Soviets (Krema 1)? Isn't that backwards? Answer: it is backwards. Once again, the only proof you have they were gas chambers is your assertion and all you can do is point to photos with captions saying they were gas chambers that could have been inserted by anyone. Secondly, when you play out the scenario of gassing victims, pulling the bodies out and when you consider the properties of this gas and what it can do, the so called eyewitness testimony falls apart. A man's word does not trump science no matter how many people believe in it. Quote: Real life tragic incidents corroborate Leuchter's and Armontrout's claims.
Twenty-three year-old Scott Dominguez descended into a tank that once held hydrogen cyanide, and later phosphoric acid, in order to clean it. When this unfortunate worker began chipping away at the chemical film and hosing it down with water, hydrogen cyanide gas was produced.
Just like the workers in Olere's drawings who supposedly removed the corpses from the Auschwitz gas chambers or the hair and gold from the teeth of gassed victims, Mr. Dominguez was not working with any safety equipment--no gas mask or protective suit. He was overcome by the HCN and had to be carried away by emergency firefighters. This hapless man suffers from permanent brain damage because of his exposure to HCN.17
Another tragic incident involving firemen during a rescue operation further supports Leuchter's and Armontrout's assertions. In June 1995, there was a dramatic accident in a cave in the French city of Monterolier. Three children lit a fire in a cave, and threw an unexploded bomb they found from W.W.I that contained hydrogen cyanide gas into the fire. The bomb exploded and released the deadly HCN. It killed the children and also four firemen that came to the rescue. According to a Professor of Physical Chemistry, Louis Soulie, the deaths of the children and firemen, and even the fireman who was wearing a gas mask, were due to the fact that hydrogen cyanide dissolves in the sweat and penetrates the body through the skin, where it causes poisoning.18
Let us repeat: One French fireman was wearing a gas mask, but he perished because the HCN dissolved in his sweat and penetrated his body. Even six days after their deaths, a cyanide concentration twice as high as the lethal dose was detected in the blood of the corpses.19
Finally, there is the incident of suicide by cyanide poisoning that took place at Grinnell College, Iowa. A student committed suicide by swallowing so much potassium cyanide that the fumes from his body sickened nine people, all of whom had to be taken to a hospital. The potassium cyanide reacted with the water in his body to produce cyanide gas. The fumes that emitted from his body were so disturbing, that the residence hall where the tragic incident took place, and the hospital where the student's body was taken, had to be aired out.20 Keep in mind these are fumes that exuded from just one body. Imagine the fumes exuding from one to two thousand bodies that were allegedly poisoned by HCN in the Auschwitz gas chambers!
In order to give the reader the appropriate perspective, let us recreate van Pelt's alleged scenario. The intended victims (one to two thousand) were jammed into the gas chamber. The deadly hydrogen cyanide was circulated throughout the chamber, and the victims were murdered. The victims' bodies absorbed the vast majority of the deadly gas-it is in the skin, in the hair, pores and lungs of the victims. The ventilation systems quickly removed the residual HCN. Now it was time for the inmates to go into the chamber and remove the dead bodies for cremation.
Once again, let us give van Pelt the benefit of the doubt-the victims' bodies absorbed the vast majority of the deadly HCN gas. Here we have over one thousand dead bodies being saturated with deadly HCN-it is in the victims' hair, noses, mouths, on their skin, in their lungs. As Bill Armontrout points out, the HCN exudes from the victims' bodies.
The Sonderkommandos enter the gas chamber to remove the bodies. According to one of van Pelt's most important eyewitnesses, David Olere, the inmates who removed the bodies from the chambers wore no gas masks, protective suits or rubber gloves to protect them from the inhalation or skin absorption of HCN. They did not even have shirts on!
The heavy labor of removing the thousand bodies from the chambers causes the Sonderkommandos to sweat. People who are sweating are even more prone to absorb the deadly HCN through the skin.
As the evidence points out, the victims' bodies exude the deadly HCN-this is why the body of someone who has died from HCN poisoning must be hosed down and rigorously decontaminated. In neither Pressac's nor van Pelt's authoritative tomes is there any mention that each victim's body was hosed down and thoroughly decontaminated after a mass gassing, nor is this process included in any of Olere's "true-to-life" sketches.
We return to the operation of the gas chambers. The Sonderkommandos enter the chambers to remove the bodies. They perspire because of the hard labor. This makes them even more prone to absorb the deadly HCN gas that exudes from the mass of dead bodies in the gas chamber. As Professor Soulie points out, the firemen died from HCN absorbed by their sweat, even though one of them was wearing a gas mask. Dr. van Pelt's most important eyewitness, David Olere, claims in his sketches that the Sonderkommandos were shirtless and they wore no rubber gloves, nor did they wear any gas masks. This makes them extremely prone to HCN poisoning by way of skin absorption and inhalation.
As we saw in the incident of the suicidal student from Grinnell College, the fumes from just one body were toxic enough to cause nine people to go to the hospital. Imagine the toxicological impact of one to two thousand dead bodies, all exuding the deadly HCN, upon the Sonderkommandos and Nazi guards who were wearing no gas masks or protective suits. It would have been overwhelming!
Thus, the important sketch of Lipstadt and van Pelt's most important eyewitness, David Olere, contains a chemical and toxicological impossibility. Although his discussion of this matter is somewhat vague, van Pelt seems to implicitly realize that the Sonderkommandos would have--at the very least!-- needed gas masks to enter the gas chamber after they opened the door to remove the bodies.21 In this particular sketch, the inmates removing the bodies and the Nazi guards supervising those executions are not wearing any gas masks. The inmates dragging the dead bodies are even shirtless!
Perhaps this is the reason that van Pelt failed to publish this most important drawing of Olere. He may have realized that the sketch of his most important eyewitness to the operation of the gas chambers contained a physical impossibility. In other words, he may not have published this most important sketch because he did not want to give Holocaust revisionists ammunition to use against the Auschwitz gas chamber story.
Yes it is very curious as to why the most important photo was left out. Back to the main post I am responding to. Quote: I don't think Shermer conducted himself very professionally. He was trying to argue for something when Cole and Smith were barraging him with conspiracy theories Conspiracy 1. A malevolent plot or plan engaged in and carried out by two or more people. Theory. 1. A set of hypothesis that proport to explain a given phenomenon. So a conspiracy theory is any theory that says two or more people get together to do something. In other words, Cole and Bradely are saying that a group of people are trying to cover up the truth with lies in certain areas about the second world war and Jews. That is correct. Shermer and others are trying to cover up the lies about gas chambers suppoedly existing. Hell David Cole's Auschwitz video even documented an admission that Krema I was in fact a reconstruction made after the war by the Soviets to look like a gas chamber. That is why Bradley demanded that Shermer "Talk about Krema I." He wouldn't. He won't go there. Hence, Shermer is part of the conspiracy to keep the gas chamber story alive. Quote: 1) I don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracies anymore either. Yes you do. Look above at the definitions of conspiracy and theory. This means that people who believe that arabs did 9-11 are conspiracy theorists. Quote: 3) I honestly don't feel the evidence for the Holocaust denial nonsense is significant at all. So blackmailing people for money over six million corpses that don't exist is okay? It's okay to libel German people like that and call them all willing executioners for example? I don't see how. For a final installment, check this out. http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debat ... index.html Quote:  Joseph Burg (Ginzburg) Persecuted and beaten by Holocaust Enforcers of Jewish Defense League type thugs. Denied burial in the Munich Jewish cemetery. (Ernst Zündel and Otto Ernst Remer gave the eulogies.) Background and contribution: Author of many books ("Schuld und Schicksal", "Zionazi", "Das Tagebuch der Anne Frank", "Auschwitz in alle Ewigkeit" etc.) as well as many pamphlets and two documentary interviews with Ernst Zündel. Chief Jewish advisor, mentor and Zündel witness in the 1988 Great Holocaust Trial. Here, in the following book, part of his testimony is described by Barbara Kulaszka, the editor. Quote:  In his books, Burg dealt with the subject of the alleged Nazi extermination camps. Burg had spoken to hundreds of people who had been in Auschwitz and had visited the camp in the fall of 1945. Burg had wanted to see the crematoria, the hospitals, and in particular, a large new bakery. He also wanted to find the gas chambers although at that time gassings were not yet in fashion. He did not find any gas chambers. Burg formed the opinion that there were no "extermination" camps at all, that gas chambers had never existed and that there had been no plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe. These opinions were published in his books and in his correspondence with Zündel. (25-6825 to 6838) Burg also visited Majdanek three times. He did find gas chambers in Majdanek, but testified that they were disinfection gas chambers for liquidating lice and fleas: bugs which caused epidemics. The chambers were standard in each camp and had the German words "Attention! Poisonous Gas!" under a death skull. Zyklon B was the new formula used to disinfect the clothing. It destroyed the bugs but not the fabric. (25-6839) Burg testified that he spoke to hundreds of people who serviced and operated the crematoria but the people who operated gas chambers were impossible to find. Nobody had published anything in which it was claimed that he worked in a gassing institution for human beings. There was literature about gassing that was completely contradictory. Why? Because it was all made up. These opinions were published in his books. (25-6840) Like all other activities in the camp, the inmates looked after the crematoria. It was the most difficult work because of the heat and the lifting of corpses into the ovens. The inmates worked very often in three shifts around the clock. (26-6998) These workers did it voluntarily. They were asked by the Jewish council or the Jewish police. It was important to ask how the Jewish council or police co-operated with the German SS. (26-6900) When they were in full operation, the chimneys had an increased amount of smoke. So, logically, depending on the weather or the time of day, the colour of the flames was different. People invented stories that inside devilish things were going on. They said living human beings were being burned. They invented the story that every crematorium was a gas chamber. It had even gotten to the point that the authors had such large imaginations that when they saw the blue colour of the smoke, they knew that Jews were being burned. (26-6898, 6899) Others invented the story that living Jews were being pushed in to be burned. Burg testified that he would like to see a Jew who had given such statements during a trial. He said such a Jew should be forced to take an oath under the rabbi rites with the skull cap, without pictures of Christ, with the Hebrew Bible, in the presence of a rabbi or a pious religious Jew. Then he should swear an oath that he had seen something like that. Then these false statements, these sick statements, would go down by 99.5 percent because the superficial oath was not morally binding for these Jews. (26-6900) At the time he was in a displaced persons camp, Burg spoke to thirty or forty people about gas chambers and to about five to ten people about the crematoria. He had a special permit allowing him to visit the different areas where Jewish displaced persons were. He tried to get interviews from various ghettos and camps because at that time he had already checked various false statements. (26-6901) In 1946 Burg attended the Nuremberg trials at times when matters involving Jews were being raised. During one of these attendances he met Ilya Ehrenburg and a Jewish publisher who had been in Auschwitz for several years. Burg asked the publisher whether he had seen any gassing institutions for human beings and he said no. Ehrenburg, who had been the head of propaganda for the Red Army during the war, told Burg he had been to Auschwitz but he too had not seen anything of gassings. Burg had discussed this information with Zündel in general. (25-6857, 6858) Burg could not understand the emphasis on gassings. (26-6904) Burg was read a passage from Did Six Million Really Die?: € The first Nazi proposals for a Madagascar solution were made in association with the Schacht Plan of 1938. Burg testified that the emigration of Jews from Nazi Germany who did not go to Palestine was hindered by the Zionists. The Zionists prevented the Jews from going to other countries because their interest was in making the Jews go to Palestine. Furthermore, most countries blocked entrance to Jewish emigration. (25-6842) Burg had frequently discussed the subject of German restitution with Zündel. In Burg's opinion, if the Holocaust hadn't been invented, the Germans wouldn't be paying restitution and, he pointed out, "they are paying." He dealt with the subject in his book Guilt and Fate which Zündel read in the 1960s. (25-6850, 6851) Israel was created in 1948 and in 1951 still had no diplomatic ties with the Federal Republic of Germany. In that year, Israel gave Dr. Nahum Goldmann, a representative of the World Jewish Congress, authority to negotiate with Dr. Adenauer, the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, concerning Germany's guilt. Israel, under Ben Gurion, wanted money from the "damned Germans" but didn't want to sit down at a table together with them to negotiate. The negotiations between Goldmann and Adenauer resulted in a recognition by Germany that it had committed a holocaust against the Jews. (26-6904, 6905) Burg testified that it was important to distinguish payments to the state of Israel. Israel did not exist during the war. It was Palestine then and belonged to the British administration. During the whole of the Second World War, not one single German soldier was in Palestine. What was there to make good again, to repair?, asked Burg. (26-6905) Ilya Ehrenburg was the main guy responsible for pushing the nonsense six million figure the second time around. Remember this was not the first time a Jew tried to claim six million Jews were dying. That happened in world war one too. And there were no bodies, so the claim was droopped.
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Last edited by Drew J on Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Irie Dave
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 pm |
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| Smashing neocons |
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Joined: Dec 19th, 2006
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Thunk your insults are pathetic. Given the information available it's about as paranoid to distrust the official stories of the Holocaust and 9/11 as it is to distrust a used car salesman. In fact since your way of thinking seems popular these days I think I'm going to start going door to door selling beans claiming that they're magic and if people suspect that I'm lying I'll call them paranoid. Or maybe I'll bring another person along, that way I can call them conspiracy theorists too.
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Ry
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:37 pm |
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Joined: Jun 27th, 2005
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Location: Japan
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Drew don't link to the national alliance, good info or otherwise just find the same info somewhere else without all the race bashing crap.
Thunk I agree that the Donahue show was crap. They had one very good "denial" guy and a pretty crappy representation for the other side. Given only that debate I would be a denier. But a lot of things were not addressed. Also there are still some even better "denier" then David Cole.
Ultimately I agree with Tim's position. People no matter what, should not be arrested for questioning the holocaust. And I'm a little offended by the article "the" in the holocaust. As if no one else has ever been racially or religiously targeted for extermination. I mean during WWII over 4 million people in India died mostly from starvation due to the British colonial rule sending the food to itself and sending the Indian Army into death missions. Their is a people dying for another while they didn't have freedom themselves. And that's an undisputed fact how many Indians died. There was no mysterious death camp to reveal. People died, because normally when millions of people suddenly die quickly they are missing from society and there is a massive impact. The people who were there suddenly are not. It is impossible to not notice. The exception would be Europe in WWII because so many people died from everywhere in Germany and all around it that it would be hard to tell who.
I mean I think we can all agree that no one should be arrested for questioning to numbers in the Holocaust.
And one would have to be kind of foolish to just believe the allies' numbers or assume they wouldn't lie, when they were busted lying about everything else about the Holocaust as well as much of the war in general. But that still isn't evidence to support denial, just reason to doubt the official story. I personally do not believe that 6 million were killed. But it's not something I can prove. The thing is, only about 750k- 1 million can be proven to have been killed. That doesn't mean that more were not killed, it just means that so far based on evidence not destroyed, they are about 5 million shy of the figure they want. I mean the Red Cross who is hardly racist and stands to gain nothing quote the number dead at less than million. And the Holocaust museum in the US also does not use the 6 million figure any longer. I would wager that those people know the issue in and out as well.
The thing is that when a white racist trys to aspouse the same things, even if they happen to be true, it seems like its bullshit because the source has such bias and reason to lie, likewise so does the racist ADL type figure on the other side scream 6 million. Even if that was true it would seem like crap because the people saying are so full of shit about everything else.
So you go to the science and the evidence. And the evidence can not show 6 million. Thus to believe in that figure is a leap of faith. Something I just don't do much. So I continue to not believe it albeit believing it is possible, until it can be shown otherwise.
The lack of evidence, the level censorship, the profiting, and the reputation for lying for the 6 million cult, sure don't help their case.
that's my two cents.
and no I don't think hundreds of thousands died in the 22 allied freed camps and then suddenly millions died in a few camps in Poland that the Russians controlled.
It also makes me wonder just how many people Stain or Mao really killed, because I just can't believe a thing in US media.
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Drew J
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:44 am |
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| Smashing neocons |
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Quote: Not when it is looked at in a vacuum. You have to start from somewhere genius. You can't claim from a bunch of starved corpses that there was a planned program of genocide. Quote: You have to be able to connect the individual facts in order to draw a conclusion. And guys like you claiming there was a mass extermination plan because of a bunch of bodies is not a justified leap. It's a non sequitor. Quote: The evidence has to converge. It isn't based on these factors alone. That is why even if you deny one fact in the face of thousands of pages of evidence with your paranoia the rest of dots still connect. Show me the gas chambers. That's all you have to do. People can't prove Krema I was a gas chamber. No one has answered David Cole's unanswered questions I quoted. No one has refuted this. THE CHEMICAL AND TOXICOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY OF THE AUTSCHWITZ GAS CHAMBER LEGEND. http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_a ... hwitz.htmlQuote: I can only wonder what kind of mental disorder would lead someone to think a missing lock proves that the Holocaust happened. Right there, your reasoning is flawed. You just assume there was even a lock there in the first place. Secondly, you don't specify what door we are talking about. Which door to which chamber? The one David Cole was showing on Donahue to the door the opens IN? Clearly not since it doesn't even lock. Are you talking about this lame door?  From Faurisson's chapter in DISSECTING THE HOLOCAUST which exposes the gas chamber liars. http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndwitness.html You don't even specify what you are talking about. I'm not going to waste time guessing while you pull random stuff out of the air. Quote: Instead of believing the lock may have been broken off, removed, Thanks for admitting that for you it's a matter of mere belief in the absence of any evidence there was even a lock before on some door that you don't even specify.  Quote: or even (God forbid) that David Cole might have just been full of shit Answer his unanswered questions I have quoted above or else quit pretending they are not reasonable questions that have already been answered. If they have, provide the source. Put up or hush up. Quote: considering his "research" is a series of personal videos Turn the tables and we get this. "The government's story is crap because it's on mainstream television." This argument ignores the CLAIMS that are contained and put forth in a particular MEDIUM or FORM OF MEDIA. You also made this same faulty argument above just now. Don't attack the medium. Attack the message. Quote: and his evidence involved vandalizing these camps anyway Care to prove that? Quote: (the only way he even got to this part What part? Quote: was by having a tour guide help him break in), Proof? Quote: you conclude that this proves the gas chamber is a giant farce (which also makes you wonder why the conspirators didn't just build a phony lock), An authentic gas chamber can not lack zyklon B blue stains in the walls and it can't be an admitted Soviet reconstruction after 1945. Unfortunately, that is what David Cole showed was to be the case for those so called gas chambers in Auschwitz, especially Krema I. Quote: and that leads you to conclude the entire camp is a farce, and then all the evidence is just negated and the next thing you know the Queen of England and Hitler were having an affair and the Holy Grail is hidden in Auschwitz. You are now doing what Ryan Dawson criticized in his ALL ROADS essay. Poison the water with other conspiracies that 1. No one holds (strawman). 2. Make no sense. 3. Have no relation to the subject at hand (red herring). Quote: A lock on a door is not a "big part" of anything. Either it was a place where Jews were locked in so they couldn't get out in order to be gassed, or there was no lock and hence it was not a gas chamber. That's just one factor. The lack of blue stains, the way the door opens, the placement of any possible lock on said door (such as the door that OPENED IN and had a lock ON THE INSIDE that Cole showed on Donahue which was an admitted non gas chamber). Quote: Yeah, but concluding that the whole camp -- nay, the whole genocide -- is a farce based on a missing lock is perfectly logical. Deductively, it wouldn't work. I agree. But inductively, when you put it together with other factors, such as the shoddy construction of a door on a supposed gas chamber which would allow for gas leaks and kill many Nazis in the camps too, the lack of blue stains, the way the door opens (in or out), etc and other factors are one nail after another in the theory of gas chambers in particular camps. The one for the present discussion being Auschwitz. Quote: Hmm, I'm starting to feel glad I added the disclaimer in my signature considering you think linking to a white nationalist website where a series of racist psychopaths discussing the minutes of the conference somehow proves it is a giant hoax. Hmm, I wonder why so many people think Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites. All they're doing is linking to white supremacist internet forums as means of gathering "evidence"! Attacking the medium instead of the message. Fine, wanna be foolish, then I'll just have to shove it in your face directly. That way you can't offer up some frivilous complaint in place of actual exegesis. http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndwannsee.htmlI also wanted you to read this man's words. 11-23-2007, 07:50 PM #4 KraftAkt Quote: The original wording is "Vernichtung der juedischen Rasse in Europa". And if someone told you its from the same conference as the Wannsee protocol its already a lie. Its from a speech Hitler gave before the Reichstag in 1939. There even exist film material about it.
It becomes clear in the context of the speech that Hitler is not talking about killing them but about breaking the jewish power. Shortly before this excerpt he says that jewish power is already broken in Germany and he then goes on to explain that he intends to do the same in whole of Europe. This was a very key point. But you didn't know about it because you likely didn't even read that topic. Quote: Once again, instead of revisionism, you decide what you WANT to be true and then just negate every piece of evidence that is actually significant -- that is, more than a missing lock -- such as this document, and on what basis, a white supremacist discussion board's unverified research? If Jews or anyone want to convince me of gas chambers, they will have to do better and answer David Cole's unanswered questions. Quote: The Wannsee conference was not the deciding factor in establishing the motive, it is one of many pieces of evidence that corroborate each other. Clearly it is not as shown earlier. But what are these other pieces of evidence? Quote: Hitler's speech about destroying them, Goebbel's diary entries, other documents which refer to this conference (in which Heydrich was put in charge of the Final Solution, establishing that it was already under way), etc. etc. I don't have time right now to go through this pile of "evidence" but I will get back to it.
Oh sure. Whatever. Quote: It proves that when people are being gassed, shot, and starved to death en masse that it's likely for rumors to pop up that ultimately end up being unsubstantiated. You can't seem to stop taking the gassing at Auschwitz for granted. Knock it off. Prove it. Answer Cole's unanswered questions and settle my doubts that are raised by that essay THE CHEMICAL AND TOXICOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILTY OF THE AUSCHWITZ GAS CHAMBER LEGEND. Quote: As far as the number of camps with gas chambers thing, can you give me a link about these claims? I don't generally take people's statements about other people (whether they are Holocaust deniers or not) seriously unless it can be backed up. Who made these claims? I've never heard that, except out of David Cole. And I can't comment unless I know what/who he's talking about. So you want to know where David Cole got it from that there used to be 22 camps which were claimed to have had homicidal gas chambers? Okay. I will try to find it. But the fact that Auschwitz had to change it's plaques, that Krema I was not in fact a gas chamber, that this was not a gas chamber door for people,  and other things pretty much indicate there have been a lot of post world war two falsehoods that refuse to die. Quote: So Hilberg is wrong because three Holocaust deniers, including a neo-Nazi and a high school dropout say he is? Hillberg is wrong about a few things. For one, he is wrong about Treblinka. That was a lie, mistake, hoax, whatever as I already have shown. http://www.nafcash.com/Hillberg also once said there was an order from Hitler for a mass extermination of Jews. However in later editions of THE DESTRUCTION OF THE EUROPEAN JEWS, he later omitted this claim of his since he couldn't back it up. He also didn't have the balls to show up at the second Ernst Zundel trial in Canada in 1988. Quote: In the 1961 edition of the Hilberg book, "The Destruction of the European Jews," on page 177, you find the statement that there were two Hitler orders. At the 1985 trial of Ernst Zündel, Hilberg continued to insist that the order existed, stating under oath that he would not be correcting in his revised edition what he has previously claimed (Trial transcript, p. 851-852). As a matter of fact, shortly after this trial, Hilberg deleted all references to a Hitler order in the body of his work published in the same year (The Destruction of the European Jews, Revised and definitive ed. Holmes & Meier, 1985). Check that edition, page 402! Holocaust historian Christopher Browning noted this as a major interpretational change in Hilberg's work and adding that there was only one reference to a "Hitler order" buried in a footnote in the new edition. ("The Revised Hilberg, Simon Wiesenthal Annual, Vol 3, 1986) As a matter of fact, Prof. Hilberg had already admitted two years before the 1985 Zundel-Holocaust Trial in a Newsday, February 23, 1983 article that there was no plan, no blueprint and no budget for the alleged genocidal action known as the Final Solution, yet he was willing to perjure himself in the 1985 trial! In this new edition, the reference to a "Hitler Order" is buried in a footnote that now reads as follows: "Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus, mind-reading by a far-flung bureaucracy." (Did Six Million Really Die? Report of the Evidence in the Canadian "False News" Trial of Ernst Zündel - 1988, Edited by Barbara Kulaszka, pp 112-113) "Did this include nods and winks?" asked Zündel defense attorney, Douglas Christie, in the 1988 Zundel Trial. Let's let the reader guess. Did the Nazis whisper in each others ears how to exterminate millions and millions of Jews? Believable? Maybe so is the Easter bunny! http://www.zundelsite.org/debate/026_jam.htmlQuote: I'm not going to go through your debate with someone else, but it is kind of interesting how religiously you defend this pile of nonsense. That's fine. I was just showing you where I got the photos from. Quote: Half of the things the "whiny Jew" is telling you make perfect sense So I guess you did read that topic. Hmmm. I thought you weren't going to. Flip flop. Quote: Not that their accounts individually spell out anything, until they are connected. A bunch of people say it, so it's true. You wouldn't allow me such a standard (nor would I demand I be allowed one), and yet you uphold it right here. People claimed there were gas chambers, there was soap and lampshades so it must be true. Remember that caller into the Donahue show? The narrator destroyed her claim with Jewish resources even. Quite the refutation. One you won't acknowledge apparently. Quote: Are you fucking kidding me? Don't play semantics with me. Translation: Don't shove the English language in my face and expose me. I take offense to it as it makes me look bad. Quote: We both know what I mean by "conspiracy theory". I don't know what you mean beacuse I can't read your mind. But if you admit that you are using a bastardized, non academic, even street definition of 'conspiracy theory' and not the real, academic, first preference, dictionary based definitions, then that's a point for me and a problem for you. This is philosophy and science. This is a debate. Time to use words as they really are meant to be used, buddy. Quote: I also find it strange that you keep judging Shermer's views by his statements on a day time TV show when he has written an entire book explaining his point of view. I don't give a damn what he says now because the fact is he hasn't really changed his mind about people like Cole. He still believes in homicidal gas chambers and he still believes Krema I was a gas chamber, which is absurd. Nothing has changed like you pretend it has. Quote: It's not blackmail if it happened genius. You continue to take gas chambers and the six million number as a given yet I have already proven that the six million number is pretty much a fraud in my topic in HIDDEN HISTORY about the kabbalistic origins and significance of claiming six million Jews died (something they tried to get away with in world war one by the way and failed thankfully). Secondly, you can't maintain the six million number when you change the number of the dead at Auschwtiz (the plaque change to reflect reality and not Soviet propaganda). Quote: Oh, hey, and what do we have here...another link to Nazism, in the form of the infamous German neo-Nazi, Ernst Zundel. It's a link to a site in his name but it quotes the work and testimony of an atheist Jew. What now? Is he a nazi too? Quote: So if they are being harassed by the government or violent thugs, suddenly their bullshit is true? Not deductively, no. But it's a good indicator that they are saying something that someone doesn't want them to say. When you figure out what it is they are saying, and you realize what others have at stake (the six million myth generates money in the form of shakedowns that Finkelstein exposes in THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY), you investigate their claims. And as it stands, Cole's unanswered questions, the lack of blue stains, the presence of shitty doors that aren't air tight, the lack of documents proving a plan of extermination, number revising, the kabbalistic significance of claiming six million dead (the attempt at doing so in 1919), and other pieces of scientific evidence that shoot holes in the gas chamber theory, start to paint not only a different, but more correct picture of what was really happening decades ago. Quote: So if another guy used the number "6 million" during WWI, all the other evidence goes away? I call something like that and my thread on the kabbalistic origin of the six million dead jews number icing on the cake. The cake is the scientific work done by Zundel, Cole, Rassiner, Rudolf, Burg, etc.
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Drew J
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Post subject: Re: Suspected Nazi guard deported to Germany. HE'S INNOCENT Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:12 am |
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| Smashing neocons |
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Joined: Jan 9th, 2007
Posts: 1921
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Quote: Based on the fact that he would have had to drive too much, you can conclude that Atta had a double who was a Mossad agent? Based on pastore's work as well. http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_ ... planes.htmThe real Atta was killed and a Mossad doppleganger put in his place that couldn't speak German like the real Atta. Patsy exposed!!!
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