Anti-Neocons

If we are to discover the truth we need to look at the whole truth and not just what makes us feel comfortable or what we can easily explain. It does not matter what you think you saw on TV that day if what you saw defied the laws of physics. It does not matter who the people were on the planes or even what happened to the planes if what the planes did that day was not possible for a plane to have done. This first piece is about the facts and the facts alone.

So lets start at the beginning to see if what happened that day makes mathematical sense. I have two pages from a very good source on the events of 9/11. One deals with the plane flights at the towers and one at the pentagon.

Question 1: Could the planes on 9/11 have flown the speeds and paths reported that day?

The answer is no, since the plane speeds exceeded what is possible for a 767 at sea level. This is not up for debate since Boeing sets maximum operating speeds for the 767 as 360 Knots. Please check the pages I linked since they go into more detail. In short if the speeds and flight paths of the planes on 9/11 were not impossible, at they very least being able to fly them would be astronomically unlikely. Also watch the show about the Pentagon on Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura. (Only facts matter and not character assassination of Jesse Ventura or Alex Jones as I am sure anyone with a brain knows both of these people to be suspect to some degree but that is way beside the point.) On that show there is a pilot who programs a commercial jet simulator to recreate the conditions on the day of 9/11. The only way to be able to get the jet to even remotely have a chance at the target was to turn off physics in the flight program which is noted on the show by the pilot who programed the simulation. He also stated under the same conditions that he could not have made the flight crash at the Pentagon in a 767.

Question 2: Did the plane crashes on 9/11 lack crash physics in all the videos of the planes crashing?

Yes. If a plane hit either tower then the airspeed of the tail of the plane would have visibly decreased. This isnt up for debate since this is a law of physics. So unless an airplane can fly through the air at the same speed it can fly through a building something is amiss. In all videos of the plane crashes including the pentagon there is no crash physics at play in any video. I am not going to speculate on how this could have been accomplished since it doesnt matter. All that matters is that what the videos show dont equate with the laws of physics or the official story.

I implore everyone to look at the links to pilots for 9/11 Truth as well as the video called September Clues.

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I was there in the beginning on myspace Ry but never joined this page because of your know it all attitude that developed after your head grew over your first book. Unless you are an expert commercial pilot you should probably listen to what these people have to say. I mean we dont discount the physicists on the side of the 9/11 truth movement so why would we discount anyone on the side of the 9/11 truth movement?

Are you after the truth? Or just what you say the truth is?

We have to ask ourselves whats more possible: the laws of physics broke down on 9/11 or someone somehow faked all of the videos? Both of these seem unlikely but only one is impossible.

What is more possible: A missile flying through a steel and concrete reinforced building or an aluminum jet liner? At both the pentagon and the twin towers a jet liner would not have been able to penetrate the steel and concrete reinforced buildings or have been able to fly all the way through any of the buildings.

After Rivero linked this page I felt it my moral responsibility to at the very least allow people to see points of view that are fact based and not emotionally based. You and Rivero can call anyone names but you cant change the facts or the laws of physics. There were no plane crashes on 9/11 and the facts support this conclusion. The sheer lack of wreckage at all the crash sites should have been the first flag for any rational and logical minded person since of course this is the first time there has never been wreckage at a plane crash site. And on that day there were 4 jet liner crash sites that severely lacked plane wreckage.

Why would they fly missiles into these building instead of planes? Probably because missiles would be far easier than jet liners since of course missile attacks have been practiced numerous times by several different governments. In addition to being nearly if not completely impossible for jet liners to have accomplished these feats manned or otherwise, including computer control.

You ask for motivation and ability? How about the robbery of the American people of unknown trillions of dollars?

Everything on 9/11 is suspect especially what people think they saw on TV. I mean David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear on TV. Does being seen on TV by millions of people mean that he really made it disappear?

When the truth comes out that no planes were crashed on 9/11 you, Rivero, and Alex Jones are going to look like fools. As is anyone who listened to what you all had to say on the matter.

I dont believe there were no planes crashed on 9/11, I know there were no planes crashed on 9/11. The physical evidence, not expert opinion, is what backs my knowledge. The physical fact that the 767 engine turbine cant spin fast enough in the thick air at sea level to propel the plane faster than 360 knots and even if it could the plane would have been impossible to control manned or otherwise. The fact that a jet airliner can not travel through solid matter at the same speed it flies through the air. Even eye witness claims cant change the laws of physics.

Do your worst. I am not interested in your reply as I am sure it will be only a personal attack since you can not dispute any of the facts and looking at your page personal attacks are about all I see. According to you everyone but you and those that agree with you are idiots incapable of rational or logical thought.

Your page and Riveros page come off more like Alex Jones' page. You all spend too much time on your ego trips and personal attacks all the while ignoring key facts that dont jive with your respective dogmas.

The truth is the truth and not anyone of you own it or invented it, no matter what you claim.

To anyone else reading this: Question EVRYTHING! And believe nothing but the facts.

It is very funny to see people claiming that to admit a plane hit the building as they did in New York, is somehow to support the official story. What a strawman.

There is no evidence or motive for a missile. You people are what is wrong with the truth movement. You base things on belief rather than reason.

It's not "comfortable" to believe a plane hit the building. It's not based on belief. It's rational to know a plane hit the building because of the physical evidence.

Defend the laws of physics... ha that is exactly what I am doing. I have a feeling I'm the only one here that actually can do physics and went to a good college etc. I feel like I am arguing with a bunch of highschool flunkies. Who are parroting statistic of which they have no real understanding at all.

The physics perfectly match a plane hitting the building. The pilots for truth are basing their assumptions of erroneous information.


blkdog is not a registered user they contribute nothing to this site they registered soley to post on this one topic and everything they said was dumb. Yes I am calling you people stupid, retarded etc because that is exactly how the comments on my youtube page were. I don't think those people understand a normal language. They deserve nothing but ridicule because 9 years of being polite has not worked at all. Listen to THEIR arrogance talking abut physics lying about the hole dimensions accusing ME of agreeing with the official story when I helped break 911 apart.

Stop dodging the question. What is the motive for a missile and where is the evidence. Are you braindead? You want to attack the way I deliver the message like the piss ants who criticized Finkelstien on his last book took issue with the language rather than the content. You have nothing to go on. You can say well this group says this or this guy said this, but that's nothing but an appeal to authority. You don't actually have a sound argument. You say we can never know what really hit the pentagon, correction YOU can never know because you don't know shit about science. The rest of us level headed people understand that in order to frame al qaeda for ramming a PLANE into a building they rammed a PLANE into the building. This is not some impossible mystery.

They did not fake the dna, the plane parts, create a hole the size of a plane, and kill all those people just to pretend a plane hit. They hit it with a plane. The missile disinfo prevents people from looking into the drone technology and where it came from and where this misssing money went as people killed on the plane were part of an audit of the pentagon.

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This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-deathcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

"AKA you won't listen to reason and physical evidence no matter what because you already have your dogma and wont even attempt to defend it, no motive or evidence of a missile."

no, i`m all ears, i`m just not buying the scenario you are selling.. i think i put up my resons over a couple of posts and NONE of them included a missile..i favour a smaller/military jet like the one tracked hitting the pentagon....as flight 77 had it`s transponder turned off 40 minutes earlier, the only proof 77 was over washington is from the official story saying it was and the call from barbara olsen that never happened...fairly straight forward stuff..please drop this missile charade..

"I provided evidence of the selective photos used by loose change the mistakes about the engines make up, the real holes, eye witnesses, plane parts, dead passengers, etc and you just sit there with drool on your face like nah uh it was a missile, all that was fake. "

you obviously aren`t reading my responses or you are drunk.....lol...

i agree about the selective photos from loose change but the single engine photo has never been tied to flight 77 and loose change is just one of many movies after the fact to be taken and viewed with a sceptical eye...as you and i both do....
the real hole you claim to see is not one i see and the damage fits closer to the smaller fighter style plane the air traffic controllers reported tracking, that plane would still be seen by witnesses and leave wreckage, like a single engine and a few wheels that meet your provided evidence better than the scenario you are painting, which has no evidence really..
the dna test could be done anywhere if done at all and i`m not drooling over a missile....grrr...lol...

"You say you won't believe me, not matter what."

no, i said i`m not buying your scenario no matter how many insults you want to fling..i`m open to be convinced but you haven`t sold it on this occasion..

"You fail to recognize the delusion that you even matter. You don't."

the truth matters..flight 77 buried inside the pentagon has never resembled the truth and the thin spin you have on offer isn`t changing my view yet...

" I don't care about you, you're nothing, a peon, an idiot, an example of stupid, nothing more than a medium representing your ilk in which to publicly trash and be made out to be a fool. That is your only role."

well how do you explain me agreeing with just about everything you have to say on everything except this particular difference about what did or didn`t hit the pentagon?....

"And you're so stupid that you don't even see that because reading over the posts you have no idea how retarded you sound because that's the nature of being an idiot. Idiots are unaware of their own ignorance."

lol....yet i`m not the one that falsely claimed flight 77 was tracked all the way into the pentagon, avoided the fact that it had no respoder and no way of being tracked, pretends to see 100 foot holes that we could all see if it wasn`t for loose change hiding them, yet can`t produce anything that shows this 100 foot hole yourself, claims that the single engine and wheel in the photos are from flight 77 without a shred of evidence, blindly parrots the claimed dna report that nabbed every passenger because the story said so, avoids any mention of the original proof for the claim 77 hit the pentagon, that being the emotive barbara olsen call that now seems never happened, dismisses the acrobatic flight path of the plane that did hit the pentagon and it`s description as a military jet by claiming that 77 was under remote control so it could be done...claims all the confiscated video is to hide the explosions and has nothing to do with hiding the impact and what impacted...etc,etc...you are that far out of touch i`m wondering if this is a set up as i can`t believe you are buying your own thin spin...

"You have no argument. The hole fits a plane, the physical evidence fits a plane. The motives fit a plane."

but it doesn`t fit with flight 77...plenty of planes to choose from..like the military/smaller jet described by the air traffic controllers, the flight path, witnesses and the damage and viewed wreckage points to.

"No one saw a plane fly away from the building and it would be impossible to land. You don't even bother addressing this. You just restate things that were already debunked in the film and in the text."

i`ve only ever heard one guy state he saw a plane fly over and i`ve never heard anyone say the plane landed, i have never promoted either idea and am only addressing them here because you seem intent on including these distractions along with the missile claim for some reason, when it should be clear we are both talking about a plane hitting the building, we just differ on which one..

"You are a 911 kook. I don't need you to believe me, I already know you're not capable of critical thought or you wouldn't be where you are."

i`m a 9/11 realist and i don`t believe the official scripted view that flight 77 hit the pentagon as no evidence for it has ever been produced and you haven`t provided any either, just confirming the scenario that some plane hit it, as i am.

"I'm am not arguing with you to convince you, you are a lost cause. It's like talking to a religious fanatic. I'm arguing with you simply top put on display for all to see how ignoramus your position is. You don't even matter."

i can be convinced by a convincing arguement, sadly you have come up short this time..i can`t blindly cheer what i`m not believing, that`s not my style and i know it`s not yours....i`m big enough to admit when i`m wrong and if i`m converted to your view on this 77 issue i`l admit it as soon as i`m sold, but at the moment i`m not buying your thin arguements..

The plane would at least have to look like a passenger plane.

And what would be their reason for using a smaller plane?

And if a passenger plane did take off, why not simply crash it into the pentagon? Why switch planes?

_________________
"When people learn to identify the source and nature of these influences swirling around them, it is sufficient. Let the American people once understand that it is not natural degeneracy but calculated subversion that inflicts us, and they are safe. The explanation is the cure." -- Henry Ford, 1922

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Ry,

Son, believe me when I tell you that I know how you feel. Back in 2003 when I was spreading the word on 9/11 two years prior and being called every vile thing on earth; I too kind of "lost it". I do understand.

Now, it is your turn. Becoming just as vile sounding will not help your argument, and sir, it is just an argument.

I have read several very plausible accounts of what could have happened. I do not personally BELIEVE A MISSILE hit the Pentagram. READ THESE WORDS CLEARLY, ok?

Now, here is why I say that it is possible for other's theories to be correct. Lighten up, and stop being so close-minded, and you might learn some things that you did not know. Again, understand that I am not attacking you in any way, and you are just as right as anyone else, but you weren't there and neither was I.

Observe:
A Boeing 757 is a very large aircraft with a wingspan of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft. This is important as it is the basis for the doubt cast upon it being Flight 77. How could this be relevant? Simple, take a look at the flight path claimed by the official story, triangulate where the Light Poles were knocked down and then take a look at this picture [PICTURE 7 located at the link below] of the official flight path just after the crash. Use your common sense and see if you can see where an 125 FT. wingspan threaded it's way through all these trees and lamp posts to make the pinpoint strike at over 500 knots (550 mph). NOW THAT IS SOME FLYING even if it was by remote control. Just measure the distances and it becomes clear that it would have sheared already WAYYY over-stressed wings beyond it's design limits. Plus, don't throw the one or two lamp posts at me again because they are over 150 ft. AWAy from the official projected flight path and angle, as well as trajectory.

http://web.archive.org/web/200302071002 ... une2aa.htm

Also, take a look at the very nearly clear picture of the outer ring before it collapsed [PICTURE 1] and I can find no first floor hole as you have claimed.

Even after the section collapsed, if you put [PICTURE 5] into Paint or any viewer and enlarge it, then you will clearly see ALL of the SUPPORTS of the first floor, and there is no hole obscured by smoke and water as I have seen you claim. So enough already of the name -calling because people do not share your opinion, ok?

Now just what little I have presented here in photos is enough to convince a jury to return a verdict that Flight 77 impacting the Pentagon could not have occurred because the evidence establishes a reasonable doubt.

If you want the total physics of it all, then check out:
Physical and mathematical analysis of Pentagon crash
by Gerard Holmgren

http://web.archive.org/web/200403240716 ... 0/4578.php

Now, you can go off now on a tangient and scream that reality is not reality and the official photos were faked showing real scenes, but IT IS THE REALITY. So all of the folks you have been calling every despicable name in the book are owed an apology....especially the one that told you RIGHT OFF THE BAT that he thought a PLANE impacted the Pentagon, just not a 757.

Personally, i have no clue as I keep a very open mind and make only one conclusion, Ry. That is that the offical story is a bald-fece-d lie. That's all I ever needed to know to galvanize me to resist the wholesale brain-washing and to find the truth for myself. Only I wanted to know who was behind all of this, so i could at least open my children's eyes to the corrupt future ahead of them. Oh, I know, it has always been corrupt but never taken to such length's of depravity and on such a devasting scale to take our US military machine and use it to kill brown people with no real ability to personally do the US any harm. It is wholesale genocide and crimes against humanity. It must be resisted!

No offense, but if you think ranting over missile versus plane, versus Global Hawk or whatever is going to do a dman thing to stop this madness instead of forming an underground resistance movement and education program with only facts to convince your neighbors, then you have already lost the fight.

I was writing this and then noticed a very logical and even handed posting you made and gave you kudos, since it took me so long to write this one. I believe that if you keep making coherent and cogent postings such as that one, (Responding to the prison planet white wash of 911), then you will find that being respected is more important than you know. Our dignity and our honor are all we have and no one likes their's trashed.

Calm down and allow all of it to roll off your back like water off a duck and keep on using simple truth and information as your weapons. I would like for you to post your videos somewhere on the web and I would promote, download, and dessiminate to all of my communty, (as I am sure many others here will fo the same), and you tube can be bypassed. I am willing to do all I can for you and I think many others feel the same here. Just tell me where you host them or how I can download and re-post all over the web in every nut job conspiracy place, blogs, newspaper web sites, and even email links to them and i will be happy to do so. Trust me whn I say, that you have a helluva lot more of an audience in this country than I ever had just after 9/11, since Alexa showed 2 million hits a month on my old site, with only 10,000 ever coming from the US. People are much more open to listening now, and I think you have a good shot at becoming a very popular face of the Truth. Not a movement, but Truth. You just need to take a break, get a grip, collect yourself, and start fresh.

Respectfully,
FREEDOMROX

blkdog so you are falling back now to say it was a plane but a smaller one because you didn't see enough pictures of the engine.
here.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/nopla ... rotor.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/nopla ... essor.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/wheelhub.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/diffuser.html

etc just keep hitting next.

again you have no reason to switch planes, and your defense for all the evidence of a 757 is to just say everyone is lying. I'm sure you will say the pictures are fake too.
You could have been standing there watching it and would still deny it.

_________________
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-deathcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Ry~

Waiting on your response to Jim Miklaszewski's onsite 9/11 Pentagon video. What was the small explosion that Jim heard?