Anti-Neocons

Everyone on the web says he was a socialist... so what. Stewie it only takes one wiki article to do that.

Read his own words in "Why Socialism" oh wait I already wrote them. You should have known that because thats what your quote book picked up from. That's what I was quoting from. I don't form my opinion by what "everybody" says. I form it based on what Einstein said and did. That's the one you just read where he criticized BOTH socialism and capitalism.

He criticized both economic systems and to him it was about education not economic theory. He ended why socialism by saying how stupid a state planned economy is and how it is susceptible to all the same ills as capitalism and it would destroy the individual.

I don't have to read Why Socialism because I already did, that was the article the above Einstein quotes came from. I'm surprised you didn't know where they came from because your first quotes came from the same article. You know the Web says he was Zionist too and they are dead wrong about that as well. There is no reason to pick out sentences to make a case when you can read the whole thing including important things like oh I don't know, his conclusion, and then know what he thought about it.

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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

As I said if we were talking about something a little complicated then that would hold some water but we are talking about something very simple, was Einstein a socialist. The socialists call Einstein a socialist. And yes Ry, even Einstein himself calls himself a socialist, why don't you address that.



Oh really.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QXCyjj ... &resnum=24

Einstein shrugged his shoulders and mumbled, "It does not interest me. I am a socialist, as you know, and my only interest is to teach youth to consider the welfare of all people and to attain the intellectual freedom of the individual which is required to build a socialist state."

Sooo...socialism is bad..right?
And if socialism is bad and einstein supported it then einstein must be bad..right?

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Holy shit, are you just trying to be "right." You said he was a Zionist on top of a bunch of other negative things and when out with your quote book to "prove it" we all know you meant that in the negative way. You simply didn't know yet how Einstein really felt about Israel. You didn't have to say Zionist as we know Zionist today, that's already implied unless you say he was a Zionist but NOT as we know Zionist today because then it's not implied.

Your statement was correct as in he was a Zionist, but when you don't know what that means then your message is still wrong. Without explaining what Zionism used to mean, you lead everyone reading it to believe that he was a Jewish Fascist. If there are any doubts about the negativity in that you wanted to portray, you then coupled him with Stalin a mass murderer. You did think he was a Zionist fascist just admit it. Mighty big of you to later, unlike many people, just admit you didn't know enough, and change your mind, and it was a reasonable mistake because if you're mostly just reading internet tripe, you're going to get plenty of quotes where Einstein supported early Zionism. But you couldn't face up to say you didn't know, you just clung to the semantics and said well he was Zionist (sorta) even though he turned on Zionism as it is now. So what if the sentence is right, if you didn't even know what the terms meant.

By saying he supported Stalin, with the best "evidence" being some Trotskytes saying he didn't speak out against Stalin enough, just further shows the negative aim of the message, thus lending more credit to the fact that you thought he was a Zionist fascist. you said he sympathized with the Russian System of Socialism, only problems being the Russian system wasn't socialism it was a dictatorship and state capitalism AND Einstein did not favor Socialism, which he stated clearly as well as was wrong with it capitalism too in "Why Socialism."

I'll re-quote him in case you still haven't read the whole essay that you keep quoting from unknowing from other books that are quoting what they want out of it. Here was he CONCLUSION


It seems like you're not arguing to find out what's true, you're arguing for yourself, to not be wrong. That's what its comes across like when you try to say things like well my sentence was s till correct.

And he didn't not condemn Stalin's show trials, What he didn't do was join a commission with John Dewey to be part of it because he had no way of knowing if they really were show trials or not because of how much the Americans were lying too. Guess what, a lot of people didn't join Dewey on his commission and thrust for a noble lie an indoctrination system of education, red scare etc.

At the time Socialism was a philosophy, this was all before what mangling Russia did was blamed on socialism. I'm not a fan of Socialism obviously but to label what Russia did as Socialism is unfair even to socialist. Socialism is a idiots Utopian fantasy of social needs being met by a benevolent state run by mature and intelligent people who put social interests above personal interest.

It doesn't work because we don't have mature or intelligent people, a benevolent state, or a culture that places social needs over private gains. However were any of this to ever happen the first step would be as Kant even said, to change the cultural values of me myself and I and the competition fostered in capitalism, and educate people to give a damn about other people.

Einstein wasn't a dummy he knew there would not be a benevolent state to plan everything because that would require people who gave a shit about other people which we don't have enough of. But he HIMSELF did care about people and HE aimed not as a government but as a man to foster social needs and teachings.
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Yes he did but maybe that is because he lived through WWII and WWI where there actually was real anti-semitism going about. He lost a couple of jobs over it and nearly starved to death. The guy was cooking liver on a Bunsen burner to stay a live at points. This was due to the hyper inflation the allies bestowed on Germany after WWI. The same fuckers who would later set up Israel and covertly finance Hitler.

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This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-deathcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I found an excerpt from the book "Albert Einstein: a biography".

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5eWh ... y#PPA61,M1

if you read the third paragraph down on page 61 it says that he was not a socialist but was "left of center". also says that despite him being viewed as a socialist, evidence does not indicate that is the case although he seemed to be in favour of government involvement in things like education and health care.

anyway interesting reading guys, learned a lot of things about Einstein i didn't know already.

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Ok so when I said "SO MY STATEMENT THAT HE WAS A ZIONIST IS STILL CORRECT." I misspoke and that was not true. I did not know that zionism meant something different then, so when I first said it I said it in good faith. But now I see that he was not a zionist as we think of them today. See I admit when I'm wrong.

However you are on very shaky ground ( to put it mildly ) if you think you can just dismiss the fact that EINSTEIN CALLED HIMSELF A SOCIALIST. You had better address that or you don't look credible to me. How can you say someone who called himself a socialist is not a socialist? Particularly someone like Einstein who knew what he was talking about.




Once again you are attacking the messenger. And my first statement in this discussion was "he defended what happened in the Soviet Union under Stalin", so lets at least get what I said straight, although I do admit that it boils down to the same thing. It wasn't just a Trotskyte that said this ( as if that had any bearing on the truth of the statement ), it was the physicist Max Born, who was a friend of his I believe. Funny how you ignore the hard questions.

Then there's this: "Unfortunately, Einstein was not alone, as many intellectuals, perhaps attracted to the lofty goals of communism, refused to acknowledge the devastating actions of the Soviet government (Sowell 1996)." The eminent scholar Thomas Sowell wrote that. So now your going make an ad hominem attack on him? Once again the hard questions are ignored.



Maybe your right about that. He was a plagiarist though so it's hard to know his intentions, the level of dishonesty involved in his plagiarism marks him as someone not to be trusted in my opinion.




The quote you used from "Why Socialism" does not repudiate socialism, it just says there are difficulties with it and then asks QUESTIONS about it's feasibility. And this is about the most he ever questions socialism.

Compare that to this: "I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy"

Or these:

"Since the real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development"

"Second, socialism is directed toward a social-ethical end."

I'm giving the quotes from that article that support my argument and your giving the quotes that supports your argument, but I think any rational person can see when someone says that there is only ONE way to eliminate these grave evils and that is socialism, there's a good chance that person is a socialist! Wake up and smell the coffee. And Ry, the title of the article is called "Why Socialism" for a reason.

Also almost all socialists call him a socialist - I wonder why.

And about his silence about what went on in the Soviet Union under Stalin:

According to Einstein in 1948, “I am not blind to the serious weaknesses of the Russian system of government and I would not like to live under such government. But it has, on the other side, great merits and it is difficult to decide whether it would have been possible for the Russians to survive by following softer methods” (Einstein quoted in Hook 1987, p. 471).

It doesn't get to much clearer than that. serious weaknesses? That is the best he can do. So the Ukrainian genocide, the show trials, the terror, the gulags, the police state etc. are just "serious weaknesses" He's saying that the Russian people might not have survived if Stalin had not been such a bloody dictator. Just lovely.

ok i don't know about much the topic as you guys , but do you not think socialists would obviously want to think of him as a socialist to help justify their own cause...

but in any case, the biography i posted says



the biographers have clearly studied them a lot so there must be a reason why they would say that he is not a socialist.



your first quote in particular seems to pretty conclusive. However, it is still open to interpretation. I will explain...
You have to define what he means by socialist economy. Is it the same interpretation as yours? The passage I have quoted from the biography seems to state that despite socialism being attached to him, it was not the same kind of socialism that you are probably referring to.

The other two quotes do not necessarily support socialism. he may just be saying that the aims of socialism are good, which is not the same as sayin he wants socialism. A lot of people who are not socialists would agree with that, but in practice it does not work.

in any case, i would need to see your quotes in context. just readin quotes from someone is not fair unless you understand the full context within which he was making the statements. not just that but the historical context, things were obviously a lot different back them.

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our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

The simple answer is that he had a reputation as being a socialist. He hung out with Marxists, Socialists and Communists, wrote an article called "Why Socialism", called himself a socialist, etc.



That doesn't make sense, the democratic party is mostly socialist so the liberal wing of the Democratic party should be even more socialist.



The socialism of the 20's, 30's and 40's was just as virulent as the socialism of today. What people called socialism in those days was definitely socialism. You don't appear objective to me, you are using any opening you can to say he was not a socialist. Einstein knew exactly what a socialist was, and he called himself one and when someone like that says he is a socialist, the burden of proof is on you to prove he wasn't a socialist, not the other way around.



Check out the link, there is no context, he said it in passing.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QXCyjj ... &resnum=24

Here is the passage which includes the previous paragraph.

The word "dictatorship" brought to mind recent events and the man outside Einsteins's home. I said to Einstein, "We both are members of the League for Human Rights. Did you see the League's memorandum in which Hitler, on his arrival in Berlin, announced that "from the trenches comes the pure man of iron-will to lead the Fatherland back to honor and glory?"

Einstein shrugged his shoulders and mumbled, "It does not interest me. I am a socialist, as you know, and my only interest is to teach youth to consider the welfare of all people and to attain the intellectual freedom of the individual which is required to build a socialist state."

As you can see he said it totally in passing and there is no context. And notice how he said "I am a socialist, AS YOU KNOW" He said this to his friend who knew him well and evidently thought him to be a socialist.

Your link is some evidence for your side, but the sentence before the one you quoted is "He commited himself to democratic-socialist goals that became popular among intellectuals in Europe at the time." Thats a little contradictory I would say.