Anti-Neocons

So maybe now we can start a thread on the vampire community?

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You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

you can do that in the MISC section.

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END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
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"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Oh, at it again ah ? Here it is. You get what you look for. If you want evidence , there is plenty out there, if you look in the right places. Bildersbergs, etc..

Give some evidence / proof that they do not exist, ok ? How about that?

There is no theory, it is a conspiracy.
There is (has been) an Illuminati conspiracy.
I've always found that the funniest thing, that Ry, a conspiracy theorist , who is right on about the Mossad, the Zionist, & Israel, etc.. & others here too, are attacking something that is a part of the conspiracy world. Because you think, in YOUR OPINION, that it's somehow disinformation , & hurting the 9/11 truth movement. There are, 13 (+1 -14) bloodlines. Their so called " royal families ", & there are / is a list of them all. With, yes, NAMES even. Of, yes, actual PEOPLE. Rothchilds, Rockefellers, Dupont, Lei, Disney, & on down the name list. That are Illuminati.

http://www.freefreedomnow.blogspot.com/

Michael Tsarion - Subversive Use of Symbolism in the media. (& our society) - http://www.torrentspy.com/directory/146 ... conspiracy

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel ... entid=1281

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:A5 ... =firefox-a

http://www.taroscopes.com/astro-theolog ... ology.html

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/Rothschild.html

Also, if you want to except the lies you tell yourself of Bohemian Grove, that Skull & Bones is just some frat ferternity , boy scout group, & not Illuminati, WRONG. & that all the symbols/symbolism don't mean anything. Wrong again, that is such an ignorant statement to make, with all the examples & documentaries, videos, sites, books, & on & so on.
Killuminati is the so called name (rumor) of their utopia, after the plans of killing off over 80% of the earths population. Clintons are jews, zionist, & are in the "circle" too. How this all connects with the nazi's ("illuminazi") is what we should really be discussing on here.

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"To initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany - 1946

Give some evidence / proof that they do not exist, ok ? How about that?

you dont prove something does not exist silly. Thats like syaing prove unicorns dont exist. the proof of them not being is there being no proof that they exist.

I gave a theory that explains everything without having to appeal to secret societies.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

again i'll say illuminati is just a concept of the groups that share a straussian or anti-religious philosophy and grant nature as the supreme authority and immorality and all the rest...

here is my beef with calling those people the illuminati. Just call them Zionist because that is what they are. The word Illuminati has many meanings attached to it by Christian WASP groups who have made films calling them Atheists, Satanics and everything under the sun.

when someone goes to research it they are met with mountains of bullshit and people who saw a few films and became self proclaimed historical experts with smug little snitbits from the trash they were fed.

I dont care if something is a conspiracy or not conspiracies work, I have established that. But everything is not a conspiracy. The Illuminati is a blame shift created by Christian groups to take their responsibily in this mess and they are the PRIME movers in this away from their selves and on to a elite group who they them lable as their classic enemies, Atheist, Santan worshipers, the occult or anything but who they real are which would be Die hard Christians and Jews.



dude Strauss is not anti-religious, he was all about the nobal lie and fooling the stupid people so the elite could profit. That is what a religion IS.

Do you know who financed wars before the banks? The Church.

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Vulgas vult decepi.

the common people wish to be deceived. -- Phaedrus

Yes, & again I like the book. & you say theory ? I don't think it is all theory. You have a lot of evidence. I agree with you that far, on that much.
& lol, I make some dumb comments at times.
It was silly of me, to say prove they don't exist.
My point was, you want to sway everyone away from them, because of your hate towards the Bible,(understandable)
& this god shit, boogy man, satan, occult crap. All that is called luciferian.

Other then what I've seen on sites, heard in the past, & audio tapes, had read in some books, Skull & Bones, Bohemian Grove, & other videos I've watched. Shows there is more to all this then just the Zionist only. I've shown a few links here & there, to a few websites, & I believe what I believe. Call me stupid all you want. I won't sway.

( btw-I don't believe in satan. It's all in someones head.)

I totally understand where you are coming from, my ally in arms. lol
A.J. made the point, Israel did not make Norad stand down. Or call off the american fighters. Our Govt. did. The Bush Admin. was behind the inside job, along with the Mossad / Israel - MIC being involved. As well as was the British Govt. I believe.
You want evidence that the Illuminati were behind 9-11. & planned it out.
I CANNOT GIVE YOU THAT EVIDENCE.

However, astronomical charts show the significence of the date 9/11. & it was the first year of the new millennium. They picked that day for a particular reason, specifically.
& it seems Alex Jones, & others are too busy to come on your forum, & post. Before A.J. mentioned the MIC & The Mossad in one of his films even. Had been arrested, had explosives, etc.. We're celebrating when the towers came down, the thermite. & It appears he may have changed his tune a little since then.

Say? Have you ever invited A.J. to come on your site ? :') I'd like to mail a copy of your book to him, just to see what response we'd/you'd get.
Peace bro.

~Thomas

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"To initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany - 1946

I see your point, site admin. It does appear that way, as a blame shift ideal.
I have thought that before, also. & taken it into consideration, of course.

I'm not taking blame away from Zionist either.

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"To initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany - 1946

that is what a theory is it is a collection of evidence. Religious people have been tuaght that a "theory" is just some speculative diea. Because they want to undermine the theory of evoultion. Theorys are facts.

The theory of how gas exspands when heated is a combonation of facts we know about heat, and diffussion, and empirical tests.

My theory is also not about Israel but ZIonist most of them Christian.

No our government didn't Dick Cheney Did. One guy. ANd Cheney is as Zionists as they come.



other way around, I hate the Bible and the Church because of all the warmongering shit they do. I am not blaming something I hate, I amd showing everyone what they do and THEN stating thats why I hate them.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Alright then. Understood.

I agree.


& no more.


I really don't want to fight.

I really am not fighting with you, & don't want to.

+ I am tired of argueing.

Like you said, getting owned. I got owned, alright ? No more debate.
ok

I had theory definition in my notepad, I already knew that, but I had forgot. Right, to me from the christians I had the wrong idea, like evolution theory, as in just a theory, not fact. My mistake again, & I was wrong.
I'm going to post it anyway. I was trying to comment, your book is full of facts, & I do honestly think it's a great theory. But, don't get too big of a head man. I mean that in a nice way, no offense. Take care.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?b ... &va=theory

1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : AN UNPROVED ASSUMPTION : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>

_________________
"To initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany - 1946

John Keatses Tomb Stone -
"Here lies the one whos name is writ in water"

Call me an idiot, because I am one.

~Thomas (throws in the towel) Nobody else is around, or tried. No balls, or whatever I guess. heh cya

_________________
"To initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany - 1946

I don't know if religion is being blamed for wars, but I don't agree with that line of reasoning.


"Economics, power, influence and trade are the true causes. Causes that hold firm regardless of the religion factor.

Religion does however, play a significant role in the conduct of war. Carl Von Clausewitz writes about the trinity of war being a composite of three dominate tendencies; violence and passion; uncertainty, chance and probability; and political purpose and effect.8 The passion Clausewitz speaks of refers to the emotions of the masses and the willingness to wage war. The passions may be pre-existing to a large degree or may need kindling or a combination of the two. Religion can be fundamental to the passion. It strikes a resounding note within the essential fabric of the culture. Clausewitz further argues that the passion is an instrument government uses to achieve the "political purpose and effect."9 In this manner, the feudalistic kingdoms of Europe were united in a common effort to wage war as a means to achieve a political objective, retention through self-preservation. POPE Urban II stirred the masses and kindled the embers of passion with his address preceding the first Crusade.

"On November 25th, 1095, at the council of Clermont, Pope Urban II summoned the first Crusade. For Western Europe it was a crucial and formative event and it's having repercussions today in the Middle East. Addressing a vast crowd of priest, knights and poor people, Urban called for a holy war against Islam. The Seljul Turks, he explained, a barbarian race from central Asia who had recently become Muslims, had swept into Anatolia in Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and had seized these lands from the Christian empire of Byzantium. The Pope urged the Knights to stop fighting each other and to make a common cause against the enemies of God."10

Here we see the implements of Clausewitz theory in action. Reviewing the circumstances; the west is threatened by the encroachment of the Muslims. The west loses land, power, influence and access to trade. The Pope, the only real coalescing denominator for the European Kingdoms, rallies the forces using the common thread of passion, religion.11 This motivates and unites the forces and they subsequently march off to do battle. It is important to note that the standard bearer for Christendom, at the time, was Rome and their source of economy, influence and power is derived through the allegiance of the multiple kingdoms through a shared faith.12 The Muslims wage war for "gain" and are reaping the economic and political spoils of war. Similarly, in order to justify the conflict and stir passion amongst the people, the Muslims proclaim Jihad. The fact remains that the actual cause of this conflict revolves around, trade, power, economics, influence, and self-preservation. It just so happens that the culture of each side is sewn with religion."

SOURCE

Table 1: Causes of War
(Methodological Approaches)

"WAR IS NATURAL" Theories (Theories of natural causes of war)

{Wars have natural causes, reasons. These causes are built-in human and/or social nature. Causes are indestructible, thus wars are unavoidable. }

PACIFISM Theories

(Theories of unnatural essence of war)
{War has no "eternal" or natural causes. War is a violation of human and social nature. It could and should be abandoned.}


HUMAN NATURE as a main cause of war.

{In-born, instinctive aggressiveness in an individual is an unavoidable parameter of human nature. War is biologically approved. It is a continutation and a development of a "struggle of species for survival' from a biological world to a social world. }
(Freudism, neo-Freudism, etology, Social-Darwinism, sociobiology, etc.)

SOCIAL NATURE is a main cause of war.

{Structure of social relations, group contradictions, division and sub-division of humankind into ethnic entities, nation-states, alliances and empires presuppose wars as one of "natural" and functional ways of social interaction between them. Some wars are more justified and functional, some less, but as a whole wars are a "dialectical" way of resolving contradictions. Progress and social development sometime occurs in the form of wars. Wars could be modified, controlled, but could not and even should not be eliminated as a social phenomenon.}
(Hegelianism, Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, national liberation ideoloies. Modern structural-functionalism and system theories in political science)

TECHNICAL (MAN-MADE) NATURE is a main cause of modern and future wars.

{Scientific and technological progress, industrialization and post-industrial development created, firstly, great demand for resources and redistribution of them, and secondly, huge arsenals of modern means of destruction and fantastic abilities of a modern man to influence through technology (weaponry, computers, communication & propaganda) other men and states. Scientific thought couldn't be stopped. Weapons and dual-use technologies couldn't be dis-invented.
Modern technologically supported wars (as well as futuristic nuclear, space, electronic and so on wars) are a "natural" and unavoidable companion of a scientific and technological progress.}


Table 2: Causes of War (Typology)

Source of contradiction and controversy Causes of war (sphere where specific causes of war originate from) Suject of change and redistribution through war

Material world RESOURCES
Natural resources Territory, water, sea resources, soil (better lands), mineral resources, etc.

Industrial (economic) resources Industrial infrastructure, sources of energy, cities and ports, financial resources, manpower, etc.
Post-industrial resources Information, computer networks; advanced technologies, hi-tech and scientific resources; hi-tech military (nuclear, space, missile) capabilities

Social world POWER Internal (intra-state) politics Redistribution of power between groups, classes, elites, clans, leaders; federative relations, self-determination of regions: level of democratization, forms of governing and political regimes

International (inter-state) politics Borders and territory, access to all kinds of resources; alliances, treaties and legal obligations; integration/disintegration

Ethnic relations Level of autonomy, political representation of minorities, structure of governing, access of ethnic groups and nations to power and resources, self-determination, secession

Cultural-spiritual world IDENTITY, INFLUENCE Culture Protection from unwanted external influences, proportions in mixture of cultures, controversy between culture of rulers and culture of populous, etc.
Religion Conversion/reconversion, mainstream vs. sects, redistribution of power and influence between religious and civil state leaders
Ideologies Access of social, ethnic, cultural groups and leaders to minds and more material resources"

Chekhov's Law

"THE internationally-known Russian writer Chekhov wrote once that if in the first act of a theatrical play there is a rifle hooked on the wall, it is there to fire in the last act of the play. This rule in theatrical drama composition can be applied to the drama of life. Accumulating arsenals of rifles, tanks, missiles, and nuclear warheads, the presence of growing and training armies, the existence and development of the whole military organization of society and of the military-industrial complex are by themselves one of the self-fueling causes of war. They are there to fire in the last act of a drama.

Arsenals and armies are developed under the name of "defense", "protection", "stability", "peace". Is it possible (and is it necessary?) to abolish them? A partial solution does not work here. It was Trotsky who in the course of World War I initiated the slogan: "Neither war, nor peace, and the army is to be dismissed!" In circumstances when other armies were ready for war such an approach could only lead to the redistribution of military balance, and not to abandoning war.

The full and simultaneous elimination of the arsenals and military organization of societies is preferable, but unrealistic at this modern stage of social development. What is possible though is to place the military organization of society under clear and developed civil democratic control. The mechanisms of such a control are known: they include promoting transparency and accountability, a strong parliamentary oversight over military structure and defense budgets, the involvement of the media, society, and NGOs in the control of the military, and open and wide debates on national security policy goals and means. As for now only a few societies demonstrate the developed application of such mechanisms.

From the wider point of view, the international community should create and develop international mediatory and supervisory mechanisms and institutions, legal agreements and conventions (with means of verification and implementation) which would not allow military machines and arsenals to be driven only by their own internal inertia and motivations."

If a rifle cannot be removed from the wall, it should be supervised and guaranteed to stay on the wall during all the acts of the historic drama.

Ideological factors: Tolerance/Intolerance and a Culture of Peace

"POLITICAL contradictions and clashes of interest do not lead to war until they are manifested, sharpened and pushed to the extremes in ideologies and propaganda. Conflicting political interests are still interests of limited social groups (more often - elites), while wars require involvement and participation, concentration and starvation of whole nations, much broader masses of people.

The “Us versus Them” mentality, intolerance towards other nations, religions, systems of beliefs, are artificially inflated and skilfully employed by all political leaders going to war since the epoch of ancient wars and medieval Crusades. In the time of mass media, television and multi-billion propaganda empires, ideological pressure on the population could become more direct and effective. But by the same token, a pluralistic media and individual access to information provide the prerequisites for a less manipulable citizenry.

The spreading of a culture of peace, based on tolerance towards the “other”, values of pluralism and co-existence, and development of social immunity to war-oriented propaganda and ideologies, is an important resource for a peaceful future."

http://www.pugwash.org/reports/pac/pac256/WG2draft1.htm

Damn straight.
As for the church financing wars, I'll read any supportive material on that, but in 2 cases for instance, that of Spain and France, Spain financed it's wars at the height of it's power through both taxes (the King's fifth, 20%) and by raping and pillaging the new world (North, Central and South America). It stripped millions of pounds of gold, silver and gems from the hemisphere. In the end it spent so much on war even the unimaginable riches it stole weren't enuf and it went broke. Sure, it used religion as an excuse to rob the new world blind, but it was only a superficial ploy, the treasure galleons never had more than a few clergy on board and they didn't have anything to do with the treasure, they couldn't go near it.
France financed it's wars with taxes too, Louis XVI went a leetle too far with it and lost his head.
BTW on those treasure galleons the King always had a representative on board whose sole job was to watch over and inventory the kings treasure, and then a second guy whose sole job was to watch the first guy, and a third guy whose job was to watch the guy watching the first guy. This often didn't work though, the first guy would lotsa times tell the second guy "Look, I'm gonna skim 50,000 pesos the King will never miss since I have the manifest and left the total well....blank, and I'll give you 20,000 to keep quiet about it...then the second guy would turn to the 3rd guy and say "Look, I'm gonna skim 10,000 pesos and I'll give you 5000 to keep quiet about it, the King will never know." Of course the captain was in on it too for his cut. This was commonplace.

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You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

Spain state had no seperation of church and state the church and king ised the same treasury.

War is not natural, there were American Indias who did not have war or even know what it was. The focus on American Indians is always the bloody Aztecs in Mexico. That was ONE nation. You go to the Carribean oor the entire East coast of the US from Florida to Main they didn't kjnow what war was pre-contact. That's proof that its not human nature. Its social in nature and it is mainly from theism. Even today the bedrock of the war supporters are christian fundementallists.

You can read the curches own finacial statements Larry and I are currently making a list. They invest in defense companies by the BILLIONS.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

That's an interesting point about the relationship between the Royals and the Clergy in Spain, I hadn't read that. The Indians in Mexico, central and south America I knew were more than the Aztecs, there were many cultures, and from what I've read they all practiced warfare.
The Mayans were warlike. So were the Olmecs, at least in the later part of their civilization when they competed with the Maya. The Inca were warlike too.
I'm not up on the North American Indians, but in my home state of Florida the Ais warred with the first Spanish, the Jaega, Tekesta and Calusa died out in the 1800's from disease and war. The later Seminoles were at war alot of the time with the US army.
From what I've seen, the one activity almost every culture both "advanced" and simple engage in is warfare. I don't make a distinction between aggressor and defender, if you're attacked you "go to war", if only to neutralize the threat. I suspect most native-North-American tribes engaged in some level of warfare, but I don't know for sure.

_________________
You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

In this website of the O.T.O. they refer to themselves as "the illuminati" several times: http://www.geocities.com/nu_isis/otoconst.html

"These are the real active members of O.T.O. also called the Hermetic Brothers of Light, or Illuminati"

As far as 9/11 & Iraq go, I've seen no evidence to suggest that they all got together in masonic lodges and planned it out. However, I would bet that most if not all the powerful Zionists involved are into the occult and take part in some level of black magick practices beyond most religious people's simple weekly visit to a church, synagouge, or whatever & prayer to God. But I'd bet it's probably more beneficial to convince the voters, espescially the Christian right wing type if that's the audience you're going after that you're a born again Christian rather than an occultist as the source of your inspiration & your means for communicating with 'God.' Some Christian organizations have even come out & said that Bush's administration don't even care about Christianity & secretly laugh at them and this was in the mainstream news, I probably fucked up the details but something like that came out last year. I'll post the article if I can find it. I agree that Zionists should be the focus in examing these conspiracies, I just don't think it conflicts with a belief in illuminati. Acknowledgement of the illuminati also doesn't necessarily conflict with a disdain of religion because the occult deals with religious concepts. The star of David is largely used in the occult, as is the kabbalah which has Jewish origins so I think it all overlaps, the symbolism & the concepts, when you get into the study of masonry/illuminati anyway. I don't think any of it (illuminati vs. zionism) really contradicts each other at all if you open your mind & look at all the evidence unbiased, just that saying it's the illuminati instead of the zionists is pointless because the zionist angle is more relevant & presents more direct evidence of guilt, crucial stuff that many overlook. I think they do this because they want to remain "p.c.". We've been taught that Jewish people are generally victims who deserve special treatment in society & whose actions it's taboo to criticize, because they're victims and just defending themselves, rather than regular people who are as acceptable to criticize as anyone else. I think the large amount of truthers leaving out the crucial zionist information is a result of this manipulation, not wanting to "discredit" the movement with "anti-semitism" , more so than religious reasons. Which considering all the hard hitting evidence, as documented on this site, is fucking nonsense. Even Texx Marrs has gone to lengths talking about zionism & has written books on it, so I think the people who shift the blame & focus mainly on the more vague concepts of illuminati, etc., are those that want to stay safe & not offend anyone or endanger themselves. And it makes me kind of mad the more I learn about zionism because they're really just spreading disinformation, not in acknowledging the existence of something called illuminati but because, for example, Alex Jones has sometimes gone to lengths to cover up the Zionist angle. & that's actually fucked up.

No war does not always come from thiesm that's incorrect. War comes from Greed and such, Thiesm is just a tool used for control. The Native Americans of the Carribean and the Americas already made contact with Muslim explorers this was well known by 1516 by all of Europe. The majority of these Muslim explorers were African from Guinea.

When Columbus reached Northern Cuba he found a Mosque on some mountain. When Columbus was able to communicate with the Hatian natives they told him that they had already seen Black people, the African Muslim explorers. He also reffered to many of the people as Mohammedans (word used to describe Muslims during that time).

Oh and before you say that there probably was war commited by Muslims you're wrong because you just stated that the Natives didn't know what war was pre-contact to the Christians.

There were plenty of [url=http://www.jannah.org/articles/precolumbus.html]historic documents
[/url] referring to the people. There are also present day natives who talk about Muslim history in the Americas.

Treaties such as Peace and Friendship that was signed on the Delaware River in the year 1787 bear the signatures of Abdel-Khak and Muhammad Ibn Abdullah. This treaty detailes our continued right to exist as a community in the areas of commerce, maritime shipping, current form of government at that time which was in accordance with Islam.


Explain to me why the Muslims didn't plunder, rape, pillage, etc. As a matter of fact they intermarried with the Natives, set up schools, traded, tought Islam, and many decided to live among the natives. No Islam sponsored genocides, no horrors, everything was peaceful. Hmmm...no wonder it is the religion of peace.

Don't blame Muslims for the Atrocities commited by Christians. Islam isn't Christianity.

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Yes people are two sided I have no idea what Ry's talking about. To say that none of the Natives went to war with each other in the east coast or North is completely false. When the first (very first) wave of settlers came from England there was one tribe leader that bought guns from them so his tribe could control the smaller tribes around him.

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I suspect that Ry didn't mean to say that the tribes "didn't war on each other", he probably meant that many tribes didn't conduct conventional declared war against the settlers.
I wouldn't put too much significance on which non-native culture reached the new world first, it certainly wouldn't have had anything to do with one religion being more intrepid and adventuresome or brave than another.
Chance, hurricane, or greed would've been the reason, and no culture or religion has a extra helping of greed, it's a universal human quality.
Both Islam and Christianity are religions based on peace. Jesus is referred to as the "prince of peace". His quotes support that. Christianity has peace as it's core, fundamental value and aim. People have distorted and hijacked Christianity for their own selfish, greedy reasons, as they have with Islam, so the popular mis-conceptions grow and get entrenched in the secular community. Greed is the main impediment to human progress and happiness, it's the core of virtually all human misery, that's why I detest pure capitalism. Because of this Buddhism is an intriquing philosophy, it's core value and goal is not just peace, but also the rejection of greed and material desires. That's my honest opinion.

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You can't climb above the statue of liberty's toes.

When people say is not religion its economics. I reply quickly that religions are economic. That is what a religion is in reality, a religon is a money making system that profits from people who believe in their brand of the supernatural answers to questions in life and give them donations. More over many religions like Islam and xtianity have had or have ties to states where they actually got to tax/tithe people and confesscate land and gold etc away from (non believers).

The Vatican has its own bank worth trillions is assets, liquid, and cash. The standard christian churches with sects in the US invest Billions in the companies involved in the occupation of Palestine and the wars in Iraq. They have a massive lobby and a perfect tax free way to launder money.

The very forst banks in history were Buddhist temples in India. Zionism cannot be seperated from its financial empire. It was Christian "missionaries" who trail blazed the way into stealing land from Africans and Central Americans, Hawaii, South America, and most of Asia.

Reigion is a secretive arm of the state that tries to innocently play like its just a philosophy about life and death rather than what it is, a collection agency of conmen who serve the state and kill convert and collect.



That is total bullshit. First of all the first colonies didn't have guns to sell. They had a whopping 13 guns with them. They were at peace. XXXX even went back to England. I am from the very first place the English ever tried to settle. My family are the people you are talking about and I know the history of my own family. (my brother has been in historical films about it and is working to excivate new spots) I doubt you even know where the English first went nor can you name any of the tribes. I wrote XXXX so you can't google it. Sorry but that really hits a nerve. We are the last and it is my duty to set the record straight.

The normal play that xtians usually make is grouping all native americans as acting like the Aztec, who in reality we know almost nothing about because the stories of them cutting herats and running glass thorugh their tongues comes from Spanish friars who said the same bullshit stories about all first contact occurances including the Portugese in Japan who said they ate babies and all that stuff. Hell people like Alex Jones still says Japan eats babies and all the just about mezo america. He also said on Halloween that Druids would ask for child sacrifices. That is total crap, it is very very well known Christian propaganda. The English and Spanish were very fond of writing rescue stories like thatt of Pocahontas which was copied form a Spanish novel by Garcilasco De Vega story who wrote about Juan Ortiz which was also not entirerly historical but fictional.

oh and yes we found mass graves... that was a normal consiquence of small pox.

History did not not make a break from literature. Much like today how it is tainted with hollywood. (half of America thinks Alexander the Great was Greek because it is in the game Civilization and because their is a movie that says he was. Alexander was Macedonian which we have indisputable evidence for with clear primary sources). Hell Greece did not even think of itself as such a place in their minds they were all seperate city states and they often fought one another as much as England and France. Even in old Greek History if someone was not present for a speech they just made up what they thought might have been said.

The romance rescue story (or heroism) was the boom at the time as was the New World. (For example Don Quixote had just hit is boom in English 1605), The woman rescuing the man was the newest twist and trend at the time and there were hundreds of stories like it which were believable because gasp they heard that in the New World women actually worked. The printing press has long since been invented and new methods of leather binding made "books" all the rage for the upper class who read them aloud to everyone else.

Native American and African History is the most lied about in the world. They didn't send over scientists they send hords of gold hungry religious fanatics. I remember reading three first hand accounts of the same tribe by three different women, one french and two english (one who spoke Algoquian) each with different degrees of religiousity. They saw the same events but one would not have been able to tell that from how they wrote.

The Christians alway said that the Pegans were Satanic and did all the unbelievable things that were just not true. Sure the Pegans did stupid stuff too but nothing even close to what their Christian "historians" were writing about them.

I am not picking on people who heard the first Natives traded for guns to conquer neighbors its sounds like a nice story. just try backing it up and you will discover it is just that a baseless story. Its like saying the arabs started the 1973 war by building up on their boarders... NO they did not, at least there is no proof of it. Of course that is what Israel claimed but... riiight. Israel physically started that war.

(ps we have button from one of the jackets of the very first English to arive in the first (failed) settlement)

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END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
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"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

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Native American people had to deal w/quite a bit. My grandmother was a native and she was very ashamed. Kids would make fun of her when she was young and tell her things like, they have to hide their dog from her and her family as they would try to eat it. When she got older, she would die her hair and never wanted to talk about the fact that she was native. Very sad now she is dead and never owned who she was.

Glad to see you are owning who you are. A bit of a different world now, about the topic. My grandmother was born in 1926.

I had read somewhere in my history book that in Boston one tribe didn't like the new settlers but used them to purchase guns and control surrounding tribes. Boston isn't the first place the English tried to settle wasn't it North Carolina? But the expedition failed and when the English looked for the settlers they found only some sign on a tree? That's what my history book says.

I don't care though, I will take your word for it because you are a native American yourself and I know my history book is crap. I can't wait until I get out of sh*tty high school and go to college.



Now allow me to clear this up for you. Where did you hear this nice story? And what's your proof? First of all Muslim men aren't allowed to wear gold and in those societies if you wanted to get rich off gold the only way to do that would be to go back and sell it to the other surrounding civilizations (mainly Spain) and that would be impossible for the Muslims because of the Spanish Inquisition and intense hatred of the African Muslims. Gold hungry religious fanatics? If the Africans wanted to take all the gold they had the navy and military power to commit massacres like the Spanish did but they didn't.

What did those accounts say?

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Boston is very far away from North Carolina. And even there they did not try to buy guns nor were the white anywhere near about to sell them to them. Go see the hidden history section and the read the hidden history of thanksgiving.

The Natives concept of war was something more akin to playing tag.

Apparently you dont know where the first colonist were.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I don't know if anyone noticed this, & it's probably unrelated to what this thread has spun into but in my post I documented that the O.T.O., a real secret society with real members, refer to themselves as "the illuminati":

"These are the real active members of O.T.O. also called the Hermetic Brothers of Light, or Illuminati"

http://www.geocities.com/nu_isis/otoconst.html I'm not saying that Zionists aren't primarily behind 9/11 though.

How can you say that? Do you even know where the CFR comes from and who started it?

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Buck the neocons. Fuck 'em too.

How can I say that? Um because they ARE in the CFR and they ARE Zionists. What is so hard to understand about that?

Do I know where it started? Of course. JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Root.
What is your point? Do you want to know where those guys got started? Want to know what else Rothchild did after the world war? Created Israel.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you