Anti-Neocons

Are you saying there aren't UFO's? Are you saying there aren't chem-trails and other various forms of mass-population spraying? Are you saying HAARP isn't real? The Moon isn't hollow? That simple ancient primitive humans created the pyramids to bury kings?

No, these things are all extremely real, and if the goal of the Zionists is simply to keep us stupid and always in debt to them, what's the point of all of this shit? All I'm saying is is most of this stuff is almost impossible to prove (I personally think that's because of the brain-washing we've undergone to write stuff like this off right away) but it is happening and there are spacey/spiritual ramifications for it all.

I personally don't believe in any shape-shifting lizards, I think the ancient austronaut theory is misunderstood by many but no matter what there WAS some sort of advanced race (possibly one that evolved on the Earth before our time) eons ago, and I just find it hard to ignore the science-fiction elements to everything, just what IS the point of spending billions, if not trillions, going to the space and eventually the moon if the entire world is controlled by money-grubbing Zionists? What si the point of NASA basically? Especially with the Project Paper Clip/Nazi involvement coupled with the Nazi's wacky-ass ideology.

Basically, if you can explain the point of everything NASA's doing, while remembering the top Nazi scientists were brought into the country below the radar specifically to form a space program with the immediate goal of reaching the moon.

Also, guys like Bill Cooper, Phil Schneider, etc. are dead, they were killed, and for what? Were they Zionists insiders from the jump to brain-wash people with disinfo and then had their deaths faked by aforementioned Zionists?

The illuminati may be a big jerkoff, but the secret powers of the world have very odd intentions for the future and I stick by that.

It's been almost a week and nothing about how gullible I am?

Oh well, I may as well use this space to admit I am a "no-planer/CGi plane" kinda guy and if you don't believe any of that either check this out

http://www.livevideo.com/video/6F393F4D ... part1.aspx

There is a good reason to keep unprovable beliefs to ourselves. Facts are unifying, and the more they can be proven with hard evidence the less room for denial there will be. So I think it's better for the cause to stick to the facts and keep my (amazing) intuitive hunches to myslef - in order to communicate the core message to the widest audience possible without bogging them down with unnecessary hearsay (it's hearsay if it's not provable).

I am a spiritual person, which means to me that I place a high value on developing my higher attributes (compassion, neutrality, wisdom, love, inner peace) and becoming the change I wish to see in the world. I don't have to talk about this part of my life with everyone though. I know that it turns some people's stomachs to hear anything resembling religion and I understand this because religion has caused so much harm. It's nice to consider another person's feelings and sensitivities when we're communicating our message. There is something to be said for diplomacy! Why creat division when the true facts will set them free?

People who are logical CAN in fact believe in the unprovable, but only via direct experience.

I have a hunch that the Catholic Church - and the Christian Church in general was masterminded by a very clever zionist of old. Why else would there be an equal importance put on the old testament? It was a plan to indoctinate the gentiles with the chosen people BS and prepare them for domination LOL (joking - sort of). Jesus was a revolutionary - not an uncommon thing in his time - who spoke out against injustice, inequality and greed. He certainly wouldn't have been the type to start a religion of himself. Humble people have no desire to be worshipped.

I'm not Christian but the non-religious Jesus was an interesting person - and he was killed for rocking the boat. Thats gotta count for something! (whether fictional or not - what a story)

Grace

Oh, I don't believe in UFOs because I've never seen one. My mom saw one hovering over our street once - but still I'm skeptical.

actually, Jesus didn´t exist outside of religious writing.

Take the Greek historian Philo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo

No mention of Jesus there. He does mention Pilate, I think

What about the dead sea scrolls? I´ve read most of them. Not a word about Jesus, even though they were written at about the "right" time

What about James, brother of Jesus. Wasn´t his casket found?

ooops! It was a fake

Don´t worry, there´s the shroud of Turin....oh yes.

OK, so there is Josephus, but he was a phoney.

Why were Jesus, Buddah and Krishna all born on the same day?

There´s a discussion about it here

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... php?t=7328

there´s some reasonable evidence that suggests UFOs are man made

check out Jim Keith´s Saucers of the Illuminati, and Brian Desborough´s They Cast No Shadows (desborough has lots on religious history too)

And this is exactly the point I am making: Even though I made sure to say 'whether fictional or not,' someone with low religious tolerance will always try to prove me wrong - so why even go there at all.

The thing is I hate religion so I have no desire to argue about whether or not Jesus was a real person. The Jesus I'm familiar with was an interesting character without needing all the religious hooey. It makes no difference to me if he actually existed - or if his 'character' represented the rebellious anti-religion sentiment of that day. I like Jesus.

Stories are good things - it's when they are taken literally as the 'word of God' that it gets scary.

grace

but the point is that the life of Jesus reflects the sun passing through the twelve signs of the zidiac

Remember the 12 trials of Hercules? Same thing

The reason that the sign of Pisces doesn´t actually look like a fish is because it represents the time of the year that people would have to rely on fish as food (before harvest)

The story of Jesus is the story of how primitave man survived the elements. As technology advanced, religion became a method of control

Jeshua Bin Pantera may be the chap who threw the money changers tables over, but the rest of the story was invented at te council of Nicea in 325AD by Emporer Constantine

Add to this the general corruptness of the Popes and clergy, and it is apparent that it is just a con

I´m not an athiest though. That would be a logical paradox (ie, in order to know that there is no God, you must have infinate knowledge, as we live in an infinate universe. If you have infinate knowledge, you are a God, ergo, logical paradox. I think. I have been awake so long that I´m starting to halucinate.)

some of the ideas in the bible are excellent. for example - God created earth for man - this is true - if man didn´t exsist, the universe would be a mass of waves. They only collapse under observation. Remember that the King James version was written by Francis Bacon, who was in many ways a true genius.

Beautiful! Very well written. I stay away from the idea of Jesus for the reasons you gave. I do adhere to a lot of Buddhist philosophy. Sorry to jump in like that, but I was really impressed by this.

ok continue

best part:

I am a spiritual person, which means to me that I place a high value on developing my higher attributes (compassion, neutrality, wisdom, love, inner peace) and becoming the change I wish to see in the world. I don't have to talk about this part of my life with everyone though. I know that it turns some people's stomachs to hear anything resembling religion and I understand this because religion has caused so much harm. It's nice to consider another person's feelings and sensitivities when we're communicating our message. There is something to be said for diplomacy! Why creat division when the true facts will set them free?

_________________
"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." ~Thomas Paine
You are the means not the end.
'The war to end all wars is the battle against our delusions.'
~Stonepeace

true, it is a nice bit of writing, but there are quite a few holes

old time Zionists? THe biblical Jews were Sephardi, the modern Zionists are actually Khazarian. There is no link between these two groups, other than King Bulan on Khazaria converting to Judaism in 740AD

This is generally covered up by the media. If my ancestors converted to Hinduism, would it give me a right to move to Bombay and kick out the locals who´d been living there for thousands of years? This is the question modern Israel needs to address.

Lizst, I was just commenting on the writting itself. I havent even read the whole thread.

_________________
"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." ~Thomas Paine
You are the means not the end.
'The war to end all wars is the battle against our delusions.'
~Stonepeace

also note, that modern day Israel was created in 1948. I think this is because Arabs wouldn´t give white guys the cheap oil and gas they needed, so another bunch of white guys were given a bit of land, right in the middle, and allowed to develop nuclear weapons. Cheap oil and gas was the result

please remember, WW1 was not about a Serbian shooting an austrian (Archduke Ferdinand).

Seriously, NO ONE is that popular!

WW1 was about control of mid east oil, as Germany and the UK, who had coal supplies, were changing their industries from coal to oil. They needed oil from the middle east. Germany began the Berlin Baghdad rail route, England wanted Iraq for themselves. Hence WW1, a battle of resources, as usual.

(See william Engdahl´s Century of War, or if you are lazy, watch Rob Newmans (flawed but still good, and funny) History of Oil)

Yep there's lots of fascinating history and connections in all that. I think that 'sacred' writings should be read as psycho-spiritual metaphor - like fairy tales (which are so wonderfully deep in the same way). When the Bible is read in this way it becomes a mystery teaching for the path of the 'soul' (psyche); all about developing the inner 'Christ', which is the highest developed, conscious 'self' in each and every person. It's an enlightenment metaphor (the western equivilent to buddhism) and there's much wisdom behind the words.

Religion has nothing to do with developing our best selves, and actually atheists tend to be more focused on becoming more conscious than religious people, who only have to 'believe' in dogma and not actually experience conscious evolution. If a person is focused on consciously evolving then they are spiritual not religious (or fill in your own blank_______ cause its just words anyhow)

just my 2 cents

I was joking about the old time Zionists - It was sociopathic rulers and power mongers who started the religion of Christianity. They wanted to control the masses (just as always in heirarchal economic systems). They saw an opportunity to conquer, shame and abuse the earth worshippers and rip them off at the same time. How convenient.

But the old testament was much more useful at inflicting guilt. Th eten commandments are scary LOL

ooops! sorry Grace.

Is that a picture of you below your name? Your good looking enough to be a government whistle blower! (Sibel Edmunds, Val Plame etc)

Oh good, because that's just what I intend to be. (yeah it's me)

smart!

I just realised that it was quite a rude thing to say, so sorry about that. It is 7am, and I have been awake for several days. Blobs are appearing on the screen now. I need some sleep.

Christianity was created because it was a step from poly theism to monotheism. Think of religion as a business. Under Polytheism you have many temples and each collects money from the population. So their is political clout spread all over the place and wealth too. Under monotheism it is all under one roof. Consolidating the money means consolidating the power. The Bible supports the Divine right of kings written in none other than the book of Romans. The struggle between Republic and Empire had been a heated one until they made a unified god and moeny (churches acted like banks and governments they tithed and taxed and gave loans.) Religious served as a way to finace war in the kill covert and collect method.

You wipe people out and brainwash their youth to your faith and then you get their money. That is why the territory Rome took over is now Christian where as in Asia and othe rplaces the Romans got their ases kicked, those regions believe in their own stupid shit that they made up. Religion does not spread by reason it spreads by conquest and then by making babies. That is why it is not mixed all over the world. It is almost clear cut country to country as to what they believe.

There have always been atheist in history because you can get to that by reasoning because well its true. There have not always been christians or muslims because those gods/religions were made up and can only be learned through indoctrination. There are no christians before its invention. There are no Jews before its invention. There were no Followers of Jupiter or Zues or whoever until they were invented. BUt there were always Atheist from Socrates to Hawkins.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

good points Ry, but I don´t agree

people simply used to think tha the sun, stars, moon etc were gods. They didn´t make the stories up out of thin air.

The twelve trials of Herculese, for example, represent the sun traveling through the 12 constalations. The sun was "god" to these people, it gave them life, if grew their crops, it "chased away" the darkness.

As the year drew on, they noticed that the sun almost "died" on 22 december, and began to "rise again" on 25th, which is a traditional birthday for the "sun of Gad"

Zeus was God, and he gave his only son, Perseus (per Zeus = through Zeus). Persus´story is the same as all the other sun myth stories.

Christianity was created by Emporer Constantine in 325AD in order to control the different people in the empire. The original name, Hesus Chrishna, became Jesus Christ

Hesus was a celt/pagan God (I think), Chrishna was an Indian version. There are a total of 17 crusified saviours in modern history. The cross refers to the crossing of the sun. This is why the oldest crusifixes have a circle around the crossing point. This is why catholic art has suns behind pictures of Mary and Jesus.

Myths in hot countries were often based on the moon, because the nomads would travel at night. This is why lunar cycles are often seen as religious holidays. It also explains why different countries have different signs of the zodiak - they represented different animals.

Why doesn´t the sign of pisces look like a fish? Because it represents a time of year when the act of fishing is important. Of course it doesn´t look like a fish.


Read Tony Bushby´s books.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucifixion-Truth ... 359&sr=8-3

other stuff

all of our words are based on astrotheology

for example, Saturnday, Sunday, Moonsday.

Where did the word "Horizon" come from?

Horus, the Son of God, is risen. Horusrisen became horizon.

And the pope wears a fish head hat, to represent the age of pisces. The used to worship Bulls (and Minotaurs) during the great age of Taurus.

So now your all just going to admit that there IS a sinister world plot dating back to Biblical days?

It seems everyone here isn't really denying/debunking the "illuminati" theory, more or less admitting it's there but saying it's easier to focus on Zionists as they're relative to current culture and that's a big "head in the sand" move. I understand the "big picture" of things but wouldn't the "big picture" be beyond zionism?

I'm really not here to pick a fight, frankly I'm in debt to this board for introducing me to the true neo-con/Israeli/AIPAC/whatever else side of the story of 9/11 and in general state-sponsored terrorism, but I just think everyone gives Zionism way too much credit. I think people here should take a more Alex Jones approach of "I'm not here to debate this or debunk that, you can do that on your own time, I'm here to tell you about THIS SHIT!!!"

And Ry, I'm still waiting for an explenation of NASA.

I think you´re partly right stanteau

Zionism is probably the biggest threat to the world right now, but certainly not the only one. But then, it is all linked together (MIC etc)

There certainly IS an illuminati, and they are into wierd things, but it is not Biblical prophesy
"do as thou wilt, that is the whole of the law" is a pretty nasty philosephy.

well for one thing, Never A Straight Answer.

_________________

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of ... [Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government." –Thomas Jefferson

Plus it was founded with super-secret NAZI intelligence that was smuggled into the U.S. behind the president's back and said Nazi scientists DID have UFO projects (and with all the evidence amassed were probably behind the Foo-Fighters) not to mention race experiements coupled with the NAZI ideology that yes they WERE trying to bring about the second coming of the Aryan race who they felt were taken from their thrown thousands of years ago by the original race that we would now call "Jewish"

Add to it the fact that NASA is a giant waste of money since inter-solar system travel is impossible (and if they have created a light/warp drive than whoa! Illuminati conspiracies everywhere!)

It can't just be a PR stunt, there's something to NASA, something sinister and insidious that can be easily matched up with secret society/illuminati bullshit.

If I can hear a REAL explenation of NASa that doesn't involve ancient austronauts, black holes, 12th planets, blowing up Saturn to make a new sun, Alternative 3, etc. and have it actually make sense while negating everything mentioned than I'll listen to the "It's ONLY Zionists" theory, but there's just WAY too much to explain.

Sorry, but the illuminati is real in some capacity.

I have not seen this thread for months Im about to go to bed. Ill have to read over it tomar.

The MIC runs everything the illuminati is not even defined much less real. NASA is a wing of the MIC they used it to over price goods and syphen money for secret military projects. The US government admitted this and how they had taken trillions from Americans to build their stealth bombers used in Gulf War one among many other war toys. It is so out in the open that they even did a speacial on it on the History Channel.


both were suprimicists then one gobbled up the other.


We are not focussing on the Zionist wing of the illuminati There is no illumnati. The Illuminuts started from Gun-ho jesus incorporated Protestant preachers who wanted to blamed the world's ills on athiest or jews or catholic and they have stories for each group. Truth is it is just the opposite. Its the ZIonist (80% of which are Protestant Christians) who have been doing this shit since the days of murdering the Indians. None of it is secret they all have BILLIONS invested in defense stocks. They have had evey president for the last 150 years but one and they shot and killed him we he tried to take on the fed and get rid of the CIA.

_________________
END THE GOD DAMN WARS
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it or see it.
Would Israel still blame it on Iran?"-Ry Dawson

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Illumanati: How about the monarchy of Great Britain. How about the small number of people controlling the Federal Reserve. How about the Bildeburg Group? No, I don't have names, addresses, etc. If I did, I probably wouldn't be sitting here at my comp. How about checking out the Bohemian group that meets in the redwood forest in Northern California every years and seems to encompass ALL politicians, not just democrats or republicans. How about how they masons fit into this? It's a shifting landscape, and they wouldn't be any good at what they're up to if the spiderweb was not complex or easy to illuminate. How about the Vatican, which has been a major political force in history, not so much today, maybe, but " back in the day"

This has already been answered, just search around. I will leave this useful guide instead.

10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's "happened before".) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

_________________
"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." ~Thomas Paine
You are the means not the end.
'The war to end all wars is the battle against our delusions.'
~Stonepeace