Ry wrote:
no the Middle East was once the scientific captil but not Islam. The middle East was the Strongest before Islam was invented. Your scientifc acopliments will have to be compared to Christians not atheists and you would have to go back in time almost a thousand years.
Hmmm really is that why Baghdad was known as the fabled city of knowledge among peoples as far as Europe or China? Before Islam was invented the Arabs were either Bedouin tribes, civilizations ruled by the Persians, or civilizations controlled by the Romans.
Ry wrote:
Muslims did not invent any of those things ps.
The Persians did not invent Algebra they just pasted it to Europeans minus Greece who already had it. And they got the ideas from China and India.
Abu Musa Jabir ibn Hayyan or Geber studied and wrote about 4 Greek Atheist philosophers was a follower of Hermes and even started his own for it spiritual alchemy. and based his "chemistry" on Pythagorean and NeoPlatonic systems. And his physics were a copy of Aristotles who he added four new terms to. None of whom are Muslim.
You just described exactly what I said. I never said Muslims invented the basics I said that it was in the Muslim State that these ideas were threaded together because ural boundaries were dropped and Islam connected all those places you mentioned (except for most of China). And while Greece did have Algebra, it wasn't as advanced as you think and it wasn't really considered important by the people or the government. How do i know? During Islamic State times almost all of it has been perserved and it was well known among the people.
However Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī actually assisted Caliph al-Ma'mun in a project to construct a world map, and participated in a project to determine the circumference of the Earth. These things were actually SPONSORED by the Caliph (the head of an Islamic State) and he helped to fund these projects. Please tell me where the Ceasar has ever done that.
After the fall of the Roman Empire, the focus of alchemical development moved to the Islamic World. Much more is known about Islamic alchemy because it was better documented: indeed, most of the earlier writings that have come down through the years were preserved as Islamic translations.
The Islamic world was a melting pot for alchemy. Platonic and Aristotelian thought, which had already been somewhat appropriated into hermetical science, continued to be assimilated. Islamic alchemists such as al-Razi and Jabir ibn Hayyan contributed key chemical discoveries of their own, such as the technique of distillation (the words alembic and alcohol are of Arabic origin), the muriatic(hydrochloric), sulfuric, and nitric acids, soda, potash, and more. (From the Arabic names of the last two substances, al-natrun and al-qalīy, Latinized into Natrium and Kalium, come the modern symbols for sodium and potassium.) The discovery that aqua regia, a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acids, could dissolve the noblest metal; gold, was to fuel the imagination of alchemists for the next millennium.
Islamic philosophers also made great contributions to alchemical hermeticism. The most influential author in this regard was arguably Jabir Ibn Hayyan . Jabir's ultimate goal was takwin, the artificial creation of life in the alchemical laboratory, up to and including human life. He analyzed each Aristotelian element in terms of four basic qualities of hotness, coldness, dryness, and moistness. According to Geber, in each metal two of these qualities were interior and two were exterior. For example, lead was externally cold and dry, while gold was hot and moist. Thus, Jabir theorized, by rearranging the qualities of one metal, a different metal would result.
By this reasoning, the search for the philosopher's stone was introduced to Western alchemy (the thought of it was incredible to Europeans, Muslims didn't need to pursue this because they weren't obsessed with money). Jabir developed an elaborate numerology whereby the root letters of a substance's name in Arabic, when treated with various transformations, held correspondences to the element's physical properties.
None of these things would've happened in Greece or India alone because they were not one. If you think these could've been discovered and paraded around and made to look essential in Greece like in the Islamic World you must be smoking w
eed.
And a follower of Hermes? A ? Listen, some people argue that Hermes does have a place in Islam.
Antoine Faivre, in The Eternal Hermes (1995) has pointed out that Hermes Trismegistus has a place in the Islamic tradition, though the name Hermes does not appear in the Qur'an. Hagiographers and chroniclers of the first centuries of the Islamic Hegira quickly identified Hermes Trismegistus with Idris, the nabi of surahs 19.57; 21.85, whom the Arabs also identify with Enoch (cf. Genesis 5.18-24). Indris/Hermes is called "Thrice Wise"—Hermes Trismegistus—because he was threefold: the first of the name, comparable to Thoth, was a "civilizing hero," an initiator into the mysteries of the divine science and wisdom that animate the world; he carved the principles of this sacred science in hieroglyphs. The second Hermes, in Babylon, was the initiator of Pythagoras. The third Hermes was the first teacher of Alchemy. "A faceless prophet," writes the Islamicist Pierre Lory, "Hermes possesses no concrete or salient characteristics, differing in this regard from most of the major figures of the Bible and the Quran." (Faivre 1995 pp.19-20)
This is in Antoine Faivre's book. Geber was still a Muslim, he prayed and read Qu'ran.[/quote]
Ry wrote:
The cannon and the gunpowder came from China the metal canon was still inferior to ballista as were early guns infferior to long bows. But if you want to see who won the artillery war and invented rifiling, revolers, clips, rocketry etc that would all come out of Europe and America.
I never said Muslims invented gun powder, however gun powder was brought to ME through the Mongols. The Mongols who later converted into Islam and formed a new Islamic State, that's when this remarkable cannon was developed.
The Turkish (Muslims) started using cannons made from molded metal, which had the best craftmanship. Inferior to the ballista? Is that why these cannons could rip through wooden ships with ease and excellent accuracy? While the little ballista couldn't even pierce through the new Turkish warships.
Everything else you mentioned was discovered before the Muslims because the Muslims were in a rough state. Britain had partnered up with France and other European countries and began a ural war with the Ottomans, which lasted a LONG time. They tried everything to bring them down and they were succeeding by bringing these secular and nationilistic ideas in ME. It's YOUR beliefs that f*cked the Middle East.
Ry wrote:
The Middle East is sitting on the richest resource in the world yet a place like Iran's second biggest export is dates. Theism has iddle East. They have been carved up by the West into propping up monarchies (who can be easliy bribed) which is routed in Theism.
Actually you're still wrong.
Call it what you want but there is no Khaliphate. Please explain to me what secularism did to Turkey? The once mighty and feared State which is now a Mouse and wants to be like Europe. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't care about the Palestinians because it falsely blames thier problems on Islam (just like the neo-cons). These countries that you are talking about are backwards due to Arab tribalism and Monarchies, which are not even an Islamic way of ruling. So you are wrong.
Ry wrote:
Arabs and Persian gave much to science but people should not confuse that with Muslims. A lot of (but not all) these people who were Arabs and Persians were not Muslims they were atheist just like the European inventors and philosophers are disproportionately non-theist.
Religion just doesn't assist science whatsoever other than funding and not burning the scientist.
The Persian Athiests who contributed to science were extremely racist and were too stubborn to take any ideas from Arabs, this was the typical Athiest attitude of Persia during those times. Religion burns the scientists? That doesn't explain why Athiests studied at Baghdad and openly called themselves Athiests and even believed in things contradictory to Islam but tried to spread thier teachings, all they had to do was pay
Jizya. And guess what? Most of them ended up converting to Islam (No they were not forced to).
And by the way, as I said before the original message of Islam came in Judaism (which was corrupted), so then came Christianity (also corrupted), and finally Islam. Each of the past ones still contained some Islamic teachings and it was these teachings that helped add fuel to the fire of the sciences of these civiliazations. But because Islam was pure the Islamic State conquered both the Persian and the Roman empires even though it was new and at a disadvantage.
Islam is the religion of progress.
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