Anti-Neocons

Evolution through natural selection.

I see no evidence of the contrary, and cannot prove a negative. IE, I cannot prove there isnt a god, the burden of proof is to religious folks to prove there is a god. And the tortilla with jesus' face on it doesnt count!

Evolution....it just makes sense.

Edit - Ahhh, good post clara! I see what you mean. You say we are supporting spontaneous generation (Abiogenesis).


(Quote)
Origin of Life - Origin of Species and Modern Day Science Class

Spontaneous Generation was disproved as the Origin of Life in 1859. Ironically, it was this same year that Charles Darwin's Origin of Species was published. From this work arose the modern evolutionary movement, which is now thought to have occurred in six phases: (1) Cosmic Evolution (the origin of space, time, matter and energy from nothing); (2) Chemical Evolution (the development of the higher elements from hydrogen); (3) Stellar and Planetary Evolution (the origin of stars and planets); (4) Organic Evolution (the origin of organic life from a rock); (5) Macro Evolution (the origin of major kinds); and (6) Micro Evolution (the variation within the kinds). Only the sixth phase has been observed and documented. The first five are merely assumed. Interestingly, the fourth assumption is the old doctrine of Spontaneous Generation - organic life developing from inorganic matter (a rock). The sadly comical result is that some modern day textbooks devote a chapter to the work of Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur, and their success in disproving Spontaneous Generation. Then, a few chapters later, school kids are taught that Spontaneous Generation is the Origin of Life.

(end quote)

Although a form of doublethink, I still believe in Evolution as a whole.

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To be the tree that will not bend when the winds of change are blowing, is to be the tree that will be broken in the strongest winds of unknowing.

-saint

MY VOTE GOES FOR NONE OF THE ABOVE, ALTHOUGH IF YOU'RE TALKING MATTER (WHY OUR BODIES EXIST) CLEARLY EVOLUTION IS THE TRUTH, WITH SOME SORT OF "SPARK" TO GET THE THING STARTED.

GNOSTICISM, THE 200 PROOF VERSION, AS DEPRESSING AS THAT MAY BE TO SOME, IS WHAT I BELIEVE.

I BELIEVE WE ARE IN SOME SORT OF TRAP, THE EVER EXPANDING POLICE STATE AND "RELIGIONS" ARE KEY PLAYERS IN THIS TRAP. AT THE VERY LEAST WE ARE IN SOME SORT OF EDDY, TRAVELLING IN CIRCLES UNTIL WE CAN ESCAPE AND SHOOT TO FREEDOM.

THAT SOUNDS ALL NEW-AGEY, BUT YOU GET MY DRIFT.

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Rory5

I personally don't believe Evolution & Islam contridict. I suppose some of the theories being put fortth by Darwinists do contridict with the creation story, but Evolution & it's proofs cannot be denied.

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hey everyone not to burst your bubble her but

i did mention this before
you guys are saying all religion are properganda, this that and how all religions are made up by man to control humanity... i can agree to a point

lets look at some FACTs that with out a doubt , no one had any ability of knowing at the time the quran was writting .

what did Darwin say , every living organism originated from the oceans. wow what a discovery , but 1300 years to late, mr darwin .

the Quran said this way before Darwin was even born , yet no body seems to acknowledge this scientific fact , even though it specifically says

god created every living thing from water, does this verse conflict with darwin ??? NO

if anything Darwin stole that info form the quran. lol i .... science fact and the quran beat science to it

you can say what your saying about a few things but there are things that are scientific facts . the 7 heavens for example ,science discovers our ozone is made of 7 layers , but no one wants to admit that
the birth of every human being which consists of 3 specific stages and that was discovers in the 1900s im not sure exact date, but the quran taught that way before its discovery , and again no one admits that ..

sure i can agree to some point that some people just wanna make anything sound scientific , but there are facts in the quran that no one can deny ,not even the best and smartest atheist .

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You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

Abraham Lincoln


In the Quran, God has said:

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves JUST actions.” (_Quran 60:8_)

To kill an innocent life it is as if you killed humanity ,to save an innocent life is as if you saved humanity ... the blessed Quran...

http://Islamic-s.webs.com

well you shouldnt be afraid ,

I agree with what your are saying, Now its important to realize that this energy must have intelligence, because we have intelligence right. other wise we shoulda just been simple animals living in nature, with out cars, and cell phones and so on and so on.

_________________
You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

Abraham Lincoln


In the Quran, God has said:

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves JUST actions.” (_Quran 60:8_)

To kill an innocent life it is as if you killed humanity ,to save an innocent life is as if you saved humanity ... the blessed Quran...

http://Islamic-s.webs.com

YES, it does conflict. These are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STATEMENTS:

1: All life on earth evolved from life that originated in the ocean.
2: All life came from water.

#2 is ambiguous and stupid. If anything it suggests that water is the building blocks of life because that is the most basic assumption to make about it. Any deeper assumptions you make about are nothing but DEEPER ASSUMPTIONS. Please don't waste our time with these kind of total non sequitur claims.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that English is not your first language and you can't do basic logic in it, because otherwise you would know how invalid what you said was.

The comment about atmosphere layers is also, quite invalid. The quran was not talking about the atmosphere, it was talking about a non worldly space. And please don't even pretend to tell me about layers of the atmosphere, a friend I grew up with discovered a new "layer" of the atmosphere. The idea of "layers" of the atmosphere is at most a categorical choice that can be broken down or minimized to suit the subject at hand.

The 3 stages of birth idea goes back to the ancient Greeks, was not new in the Quran, and is not considered a modern discovery. Hearing the lie that the Quran is proven by this claim perpetuated over and over is offensive.

Please stop quoting these false and invalid Islam websites that are promoting pseudoscience as proof of the quran. It's dishonest and harmful.

Please show me a fact from the Quran that no one can deny and (the important part ->) is ALSO SOME KIND OF PROOF OF ANYTHING.

Maybe believing in the Quran after reading it is a byproduct of believing ambiguous and incredibly general claims are proof of ANYTHING. The Quran is so incredibly ambiguous that you can basically claim anything you want based on it's text and get away with it because it doesn't actually give detail for anything.

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Is your view of the world in sync with what you 'know' about the world?

"The state breaks everything and then blames freedom.
The state destroys everything and then blames those who interact voluntarily for that destruction."
-- Stefan Molyneux

lmao ...you must be kidding your self, completely different statements ??
wow so the words are not exactly the same,omg.
actually the quran is more accurate then darwin , because darwin said o life began in water then came to land, but the quran says everything created is based on water from the ocean creatures to the land creatures

look it up , what is the basic and most important element in all life ??? right ... please nice try but nahh not even close




you making this illogical statement show how much logic you got man
thanx this made me laugh so much my side was killing me oh man my eyes are still tearing up ahahah ,,,



right like your gona know the quran more then me, please .. to support what im saying another verse clearly says to mankind if you want to penetrate the heavens you must use great force... right now a space rocket needs how much force to clear our ozone ????

its your dear scientist that discovered this amazing discovery about the seven layers again validating the quran explanation of the heavens ,which can also mean whatever is above us . NOT JUST PARADISE

lol ,your are gona teach me what the quran is talking about .lmao. whata joke . Do you read arabic and understand arabic ??? how can you know what the quran is talking about ??? you will only know what the translator tells you, but i unlike you can read it for myself and understand what its talking about.



lol uhuh , nice attempt , but seriously your not saying anything that is an actual argument.... your talking and trying to actually make apoint, but what point did you really make ???

ancient Greeks knew that the birth process of human beings is done in three stages, i wanna see wtf you talking about lol post a link something that will back you up, but you see all Greek studies were lost and mostly destroyed, its after the quran and after Muslims ruled and revived most greek studies and much more. notice i said after the quran, not before..
need i also mention how MUSLIMS WERE THE ONES TO HELP EUROPE OUT OF THE DARK AGES WITH THEIR STUDIES and knowledge that is also a fact .

how ignorant your comments and the nerve to say its shameful on my side ... seriously , you talk alot but you not saying much , your trying but honestly i just realized where your logic is ,

its shameful for you to actually think you made sense right now. lmaoooo
your a resonable man i bet, i know you want to refute this anyway possible, but your logic seems to be stuck like a car in snow , not going anywhere .



ok you asked for it , let me see where your logic really is cause i made an assumption basing it on what ive read from your statements , but here is the undeniable proof you asked for

the quran also says that all life creations are created in the best of design

how you can argue this amazing and very true fact in life and in creation behind all creations .. the human being alone proofs this but no everything else around us also proofs this.

BEST OF DESIGN just so you don't miss it

understand one thing about the quran its not a science book , its a book with science, poetry, wisdom ,stories, and many life lessons that intrigue the minds of all of humanity ,

I told you this before , the quran for mankind to write down all the knowledge that around them , used the oceans as ink and all the trees as pens, give mankind seven times that amount still wont be enough to write all the knowledge ..... there is too, too , too much to be written , how can you expect afull scale detail of everything around us ???

see my friend it had to be kept simple.because there isn't enough books in the world to write down all the knowledge that exists around us ... FACT

peace be upon you/ sallam alaykem

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You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

Abraham Lincoln


In the Quran, God has said:

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves JUST actions.” (_Quran 60:8_)

To kill an innocent life it is as if you killed humanity ,to save an innocent life is as if you saved humanity ... the blessed Quran...

http://Islamic-s.webs.com

To an extent, i agree with Ledskof. Trying to derive scientific facts from generally ambiguous passages is quite harmful. It can indeed have a detrimental affect in the long run.

We need to stop assuming that what we know now of science is the all and end all. There is alot to learn and alot to discover, alot of generally accepted facts might be outdated myths in the years to come. What will then happen to all the arguments being put forth by a number of Muslims about science in Islam? Much of it will be discredited and this will certainly change people's perspective on the Qur'an in a negative manner. So people that promote such arguments really need to think things through. Do your research of science, don't just take what a user created website says as infallible truth. Unless you're an expert in a subject regarding science and an decent Arab linguist, its best to ignore such arguments. However, i'm not denying that in certain passages of the Qur'an, there are accurate descriptions of aspects of natural law.

But ultimately, The Qur'an is a book of wisdom, a means to better understand ourselves, a guide to live by and a highway that leads to God. It's not meant to be a scientific textbook.

There are numerous other Qur'anic miracles which are constant. We don't need to derive science to prove the Qur'an. It will hurt more than help.

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When Darwin gets so much credit for something that the quran already teaches i have to say something especially when they insult the quran to be some man made book . which is impossible of being ,the knowledge with in it changed nations and billions of people, they don't realize they are insulting the intellect of humanity by insulting the quran to be some man made book, human being is not born stupid and regardless of whatever brainwashing tactics some people use ,People will use their own common sense to come up to their own individual conclusions right ??

and i already said its not a scientific book, its has some in it but there are so many areas to cover it cant only speak about science.

i definatly understand what your saying, but some things are irrefutable and the quran regardless of what some people say CANNOT BE THE WORK OF MAN, its way beyond man , man can only learn from it , but can never come up with anything like it , the passage even though simple are very clear to what they saying to us.. sure many would use anything to prove their claims ,but not all claims are false or general .some are very accurate

like the water info giving which science proved to be so very true, because water is the main element in all life forms .

like the superiority in design which exists in all creations. just to name a few.

im not saying i didn't agree with him, but he kept saying im illogical when im only talking about a few irrefutable lessons.

he will make his points and i will make mines, as long as the convo stays civil the discussion can always continue and through discussion we can reach a conclusion if not a conclusion then some place of understanding

its a very touchy issue that true , but not talking about it wont help much either . there are things that must be talked about, and how can an unlearned man speak of so much wisdom with out divine intervention ??? he had no access to any known studies at the time and for them to say he took it from another civilization is very ignorant indeed. because the wisdom of the quran is for all of humanity , did Mohammad (pbuh) travel the world and steal all the knowledge of the past ??? Not possible .

so where is the logic of sayin he did ??

_________________
You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

Abraham Lincoln


In the Quran, God has said:

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves JUST actions.” (_Quran 60:8_)

To kill an innocent life it is as if you killed humanity ,to save an innocent life is as if you saved humanity ... the blessed Quran...

http://Islamic-s.webs.com