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What is your view point on the origin of life? (not the earth or universe, this will be addressed at a later point)
Creation (as in biblical) 16%  16%  [ 7 ]
Intelligent Design (as in non-biblical) 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Evolution through help of a superior being (correlates with ID). 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Evolution through Natural Selection (Darwin's theory) 53%  53%  [ 23 ]
Agnostic (as in the there is no way to know, and not the fence riding between relgion and atheism) 14%  14%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 43
 
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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm 
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Ry wrote:
and what do you believe about humans who share 98% of their DNA with apes?


so that doesn't prove anything, they are the closest thing to us, but they are still totally different


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:24 am 
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ledskof wrote:
sangre_de_soldado wrote:
There's no way you can change from one species to another


You're almost right. Living organisms don't change species. However their offspring can lead down the path of changing species as they change over generations.

Please explain why species can't evolve to the point where they would not be able to reproduce with their previous species. Not being able to reproduce with another animal is a basic aspect of being a different species.

So tell me, do you truly not think it is possible for a species to evolve to the point where it would be incapable of reproducing with an animal identical to where it was before millions of years of evolution?

Millions of years.

That's a long time.


It doesn't matter if it's a long time for an animal to change to a new species drastic changes in DNA would have to happen. Like I said if that was possible than it's possible for a reptile to turn into a mammal, one in depth look at our bodies and that of animals and you can tell this is impossible. Even over millions of years...

Now i'm not saying animals don't have major changes over millions of years, i'm saying that these changes can easily be labeled adaptation. Changes to better help animals to survive such as larger tools to kill prey or to have an easier time surviving in a new kind of environement is all adaptation, not a change in species.

This is what they say the whale looked like during prehistoric times.
Image

I don't know what exact kind of whale it is but what I do know is that they never laid eggs, were cold blooded, were always mammals, and always breathed oxygen. However, those teeth definately changed, and so did the shape of the head. Why? well those teeth probably changed because of a better way to eat and the shape of it's head obviously changed over generations because a streamlined body benefits swimming animals much more than that uneven look. That's adaptation, it doesn't change it's species.

If you can prove to me that an animal has had changes in way of reproduction or diets that would definately be something to think about.

I don't know much about the subject of evolution (still studying it) but from what I read the theory just seems iffy to me. If it was true many things today wouldn't be the same (at least that's what I think).

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:55 pm 
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in my opinion, i definately don't flat out reject the theory of eveolution. I agree with sangre, i believe in a form of adaptation or even evolution WITHIN species, but i definately don't believe that we all came from fish. yes, obviously each species (i.e. fish, cats, etc.) has evolved within themselves, as well as humans...i mean humans haven't always looked like we do now. there's a big difference between the neanderthals and modern-day man. and yes, we share about 98% of our DNA with apes, but i'm still kinda skeptical that we came from apes...However, i would never go as far as completely denying ANY truth in Darwin's theory.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:53 pm 
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sarsura57 wrote:
in my opinion, i definately don't flat out reject the theory of eveolution. I agree with sangre, i believe in a form of adaptation or even evolution WITHIN species, but i definately don't believe that we all came from fish. yes, obviously each species (i.e. fish, cats, etc.) has evolved within themselves, as well as humans...i mean humans haven't always looked like we do now. there's a big difference between the neanderthals and modern-day man. and yes, we share about 98% of our DNA with apes, but i'm still kinda skeptical that we came from apes...However, i would never go as far as completely denying ANY truth in Darwin's theory.


I know i'm right because one really good example is today's dolphin or whale.

I can't find a picture of it but they say the dolphin was actually a dog-like mammal that lived on land and it "evolved" into the dolphin today because it started to live on water.

If the theory of evolution was true than today's dolphins would not be breathing oxygen, they would have gills like fish. They would not have blowholes or have to breathe oxygen every once in a while.

Adaptation can change many things, but some stay permanent. And if these permanent attributes were able to change then that would definately be something strange.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:06 pm 
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british_freedom_fighter wrote:
I'll take this oppertunity to provide some long overdue evidence against human evolution.

Quote:
Migrating mothers
When we inherit our DNA from our parents, we get more or less equal quantities of nuclear DNA from Mum and Dad, but we get our mitochondrial DNA from Mum, from the mitochondria in the egg. This allows us to trace our maternal ancestry. Over time, changes (mutations) can occur in DNA. These changes are inherited, giving rise to new lines.

If our mDNA is similar to somebody else’s, it means we have the same great, great, great, great (many times over) grand-mother. By examining the mDNA of modern populations it is possible to identify ‘clusters’ of present-day people with similar sets of mutations, which can be traced back to a single maternal ancestor in the distant past. It is also possible to guess at when that ancestor arrived in an area.

Evidence from mDNA suggests that most Europeans are descended from 11 founder mothers who arrived at some time between 10 and 45,000 years ago. Their descendants are now living side by side from Ireland to Siberia. More amazingly, all modern humans might be descended from one women who lived in Africa 100,000 years ago. mDNA has also shown that Polynesia was colonised from east Asia, not South America, and Native North Americans arrived even earlier than we thought.


(from http://sycd.co.uk/can_we_should_we/pdf/everywhere/cross_curricular/swylei4.pdf)
I added all bold.

Regarding skin colour, it is highly unlikely, but possible, that two black parents give birth to a white child. Is it just as unlikely over a period of over 100,000 years?

If humans evolved differently, a black man and a white woman, for example, would not be able to breed because they have become different species... and this is an idea that feeds fuel to the fire of racism.

You may point out that it has been possible to mate a lion and a tiger, but the resulting creature is unable to breed. You can check this up, so correct me if I'm wrong on that one. Also, different types of domesticated dog are not different species, they are different genetic strains and the result of breeding, don't forget about these genetic mutations. Dogs and wolves are creatures that are both products of an evolution from a previous animal. We are not animals.

And as for the "between skeletons" why must you immediately believe, on the principle of Darwin's theory applying to humans, that these ape skeletons are older versions of humans? They are apes that died out. If we did evolve from apes we would look rather different, saying an ape evolved into a snake is just as silly as saying apes evolved into humans. They might be called homo-sapiens but isn't that just a label? It's like assuming that Windows 95 evolved into Windows XP. No sir! They were created at seperate times. Animals came a long time before humans (backteria, fish, dinosaurs and so on), there was a long period of time before humans appeared on earth.


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:40 pm 
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unfortunately, what you guys are doing in your "there's no way for an animal to change species" is called assumption. What evolutionary scientists are doing is examining evidence.

And you still didn't really answer me question. Do you not beleive that over millions of years an animal could evolve to the point that it could not reproduce with an animal identical to it's ancestor millions of years prior?
That is speciation.


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:24 pm 
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ledskof wrote:
unfortunately, what you guys are doing in your "there's no way for an animal to change species" is called assumption. What evolutionary scientists are doing is examining evidence.

And you still didn't really answer me question. Do you not beleive that over millions of years an animal could evolve to the point that it could not reproduce with an animal identical to it's ancestor millions of years prior?
That is speciation.


May I remind you that evolution is still a theory? It has countless flaws in it, so assuming that it's true is also assumption.

And no I don't believe it's possible for an animal species to change over millions of years of generations because if that were true then certain boundaries of "evolved" species would've changed already.

Image

We would not see that hole on top of the dolphin's head because "over millions of years" has passed and if evolution was true the dophin could've turned into a fish even though originally it was a dog-like creature. But it isn't. It is still a mammal which reproduces the same way and needs to breathe oxygen, it's body just adapted to it's new environment. I don't see how these kinds of new attributes that resulted from adaptation which don't change major parts of your inner genetic make-up of how your body works can make a species of animal not be able to reproduce with it's ancestor of a million years ago.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:41 am 
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wow we got another one.

Do you know what the word Theory mean? it does not mean the same thing as just an idea.

A theory is a composition of facts and facts are the strongest and most undisputed things we have.

Gravity is a "theory" that doesn't make it uncertain. It just means that Gravity combines many other established physical laws into a whole.

Evolution combines other established and tesable facts we know about Biology. DNA is not a guess it is a fact.

We can watch diseases and insects evolve and get immune to cures and poisons quickly because of their rapid generations.

The Theory of Evolution does not claim that people just came from apes like a lot of retarded biblical and I guess Qurranic dumb asses like to paint it because they heard it in Sunday school or from a cleric.

Apes are simply in the same Family (wich is a scientific term) as humans give that they have 98% of the same DNA. 2% is a big difference, but it not a big difference compared to 50% compatibility of say a human and a Banana. That is a massive difference. The catagoeires of animals and plants etc is not arbitary. Its backed up by observable gene sequences.

Quote:
We would not see that hole on top of the dolphin's head because "over millions of years" has passed and if evolution was true the dophin could've turned into a fish even though originally it was a dog-like creature.


That is so fucking stupid. Evolution does not state that things just turn into other things like dolphin giving birth toa dog. You dont know what the Hell you are talking about and you can't argue against elevolution until you know what it is. And guess what genius there are other mammals that live in the Sea and do you know what all the fish breathe? No they dont breathe water they breathe Oxygen same as dolphins. Humans too breathe Oygen. ウェレアてぇオy減印てぇ愛rてぇさめ亜sふぃshBレア手オy減印てぇ和手rセえうぁてゃっぺねsと酔うrふぃし名短kウィthのPランtsオrしっるぁちおのふぉxy減。We breathe the Oygen in the air and fish breathe the oygen in the water. See what happens to your fish in a fish tank that has no plants and doesn't circulate oygen.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:26 am 
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Ry wrote:
wow we got another one.

Do you know what the word Theory mean? it does not mean the same thing as just an idea.

A theory is a composition of facts and facts are the strongest and most undisputed things we have.

Gravity is a "theory" that doesn't make it uncertain. It just means that Gravity combines many other established physical laws into a whole.

Evolution combines other established and tesable facts we know about Biology. DNA is not a guess it is a fact.

We can watch diseases and insects evolve and get immune to cures and poisons quickly because of their rapid generations.

The Theory of Evolution does not claim that people just came from apes like a lot of retarded biblical and I guess Qurranic dumb asses like to paint it because they heard it in Sunday school or from a cleric.

Apes are simply in the same Family (wich is a scientific term) as humans give that they have 98% of the same DNA. 2% is a big difference, but it not a big difference compared to 50% compatibility of say a human and a Banana. That is a massive difference. The catagoeires of animals and plants etc is not arbitary. Its backed up by observable gene sequences.

Quote:
We would not see that hole on top of the dolphin's head because "over millions of years" has passed and if evolution was true the dophin could've turned into a fish even though originally it was a dog-like creature.


That is so ing stupid. Evolution does not state that things just turn into other things like dolphin giving birth toa dog. You dont know what the Hell you are talking about and you can't argue against elevolution until you know what it is. And guess what genius there are other mammals that live in the Sea and do you know what all the fish breathe? No they dont breathe water they breathe Oxygen same as dolphins. Humans too breathe Oygen. ウェレアてぇオy減印てぇ愛rてぇさめ亜sふぃshBレア手オy減印てぇ和手rセえうぁてゃっぺねsと酔うrふぃし名短kウィthのPランtsオrしっるぁちおのふぉxy減。We breathe the Oygen in the air and fish breathe the oygen in the water. See what happens to your fish in a fish tank that has no plants and doesn't circulate oygen.


In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It can still be proven wrong.

Quote:
We can watch diseases and insects evolve and get immune to cures and poisons quickly because of their rapid generations.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah we can give inoculation to someone and the same thing happens and generations don't even have to pass by. This doesn't prove evolution, it's just natural adaptation. The Native Central Americans had a resistance to Malaria which the Europeans didn't have, did that make them more evolved? Hell no, they could'nt resist small pox because thier bodies were used to malaria not small pox and the Europeans were the other way around. But this happened to each of them because of ADAPTATION.

Quote:
ウェレアてぇオy減印てぇ愛rてぇさめ亜sふぃshBレア手オy減印てぇ和手rセえうぁてゃっぺねsと酔うrふぃし名短kウィthのPランtsオrしっるぁちおのふぉxy減。

?

And I meant oxygen in the air. If evolution was true then over this long period of time dolphins should've formed gills. But they don't have them.

I don't even know why I am typing this up. Just read British_freedom_fighter's post and no evolution believer can refute that without looking like an idiot.

Quote:
The Theory of Evolution does not claim that people just came from apes like a lot of retarded biblical and I guess Qurranic dumb asses like to paint it because they heard it in Sunday school or from a cleric.


Actually I heard it from a proffesor in a nearby college and many Scientists think this way also.

Image

It would not be in the famous picture if they didn't think this way. I am well aware that this isn't the popular idea of it, but it is one and regardlesss it's just so funny it had to be made fun of.

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