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 Post subject: The Great Debate
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:08 am 
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Anti-Zionist princess
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Posts: 9718
Location: USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95VTh4FA_gE



Quote:
The fine-tuning argument is NOT fine-tuned to assist believers of particular religions to argue for the truth of their religion's claims.

References cited below.

Inspiration for this one came from listening to a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Frank Turek, co-author of "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
(Geisler, N and Turek, F. Crossway Books, Wheaton Illinois, 2004).
Turek's first 20 minutes were very much like the first three of this video ie, the arguments from cosmology, teleology (the apparent designed nature of the universe), and morality. Some parts of it are direct quotations, other parts are paraphrased, and others I picked up from other theists' videos/writings. To be fair to Turek, he acknowledged that these arguments did NOT lend credibility to the bible on their own, and invited Hitchens to a debate that would deal with the reliability of the bible. I ask, though if you're going to admit that the cosmological argument doesn't prove what you want to communicate, then why bother using it? Christians arent REALLY interested in making atheists into DEISTS, are they? (That's certainly NOT what they're called upon to do in the bible).

These cosmological-type arguments are just so broad and general, that it is a MASSIVE LEAP to go from them, to suddenly arguing for a deity whose name you know, whose values you know (on such things as dietary restrictions and opinions about how you should cut your hair, and, of course, opinions about foreskins), and who apparently has called you into a personal relationship with it. A leap SO MASSIVE, in fact, that no Christian would ever accept it from a Muslim, or vice versa, let alone from a Hindu or a devotee of ancient Egyptian gods.

So this video is not aimed at, or attempting to parody, Frank Turek, but is aimed at those in the youtube Christian community who seem to think that their faith is defended by recourse to the cosmological argument.
Folks, it is NOT.
It never WILL be.
See how ridiculous it seems to you when it comes from someone of another faith? In fact, I found a site that uses ALL of the cosmological arguments that are usually used in defending Christianity, being used to "prove" the accuracy and truth of the Quran.
Here it is, see if these arguments convert you to Islam:
http://www.creationofuniverse.com/ind...

The point of having the atheist remain silent throughout is an attempt to point out two things:
a) that the more theists use these arguments, the more they are simply doing their opponents' work for them, and
b) that we as atheists (or more correctly as anti-theists, as I consider myself) can simply CONCEDE so many arguments and that are intended to stump us. CONCEDE the point, and show the christian that the argument does NOTHING to help them. NOTHING.
What rocks dream of : NOTHING!!!!


So what explains the incredible numbers and precision at the moments following the big bang?
I DON'T KNOW!
But hey, theist:::: neither do you.
And that's OK.

Maybe it was The Goddess...? Maybe it was Great Spirit...? Maybe it was mass consciousness....?
Maybe we'll never know....!


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 Post subject: Re: The Great Debate
 Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:34 am 
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Anti-Zionist princess
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Joined: Jan 1st, 2007
Posts: 9718
Location: USA
:lol:
my thoughts exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: The Great Debate
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:19 am 
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Revolutionary Party
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Posts: 433
Quote:
and, of course, opinions about foreskins


I lawled.

_________________
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." -Einstein


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