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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Super Anti-Neocon
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Although this argument is a logical fallacy (Guilt by Association) Ive responded anyway


its not guilt by association they were not associated with christians they were christians. The Pope (who is a christian) divided the whole new world between Spain and Portugal ignoring all the people already living there and then about 90million people were killed. And it wasn't just the Catholics doing the killing.

And it's not just people in the past were killed so all Christians are murderers its the christian religion ordained mass murder not only in the past but now to and the christian religion is not about tolerance. That's a funny word tolerance it wouldn't have to be tolerated if they weren't bigots to begin with it wouldn't even bother them.

The most recent war in Iraq was labeled a crusade and the people signing up to kill Iraqis by and large do it because they want to kill Muslims saw it as revenge for 911 etc Blackwater is a holy roller organization. The religion teaches that non-Christians burn in hell that is not tolerance. All through the Bible the Jews are at war with people and murdering them for land. It's not about love or tolerance. Love is defined as submission to god its obedience.

Zionism TODAY is promoted and financed by Churches and by Zionist Christian and Jewish organizations. They are still murdering people Because of their Religious beliefs. Churches pay for the killings. Its not just some individuals killing people. These are institutions with trillions of dollars spending hundreds of billions of it on financing Israel and genocide.

This is not some isolated insolent like jonestown with a few hundred people or the cult chasing a comet in a suicide pact. This is Christianity from the time it was invented to now murdering whole nations of people and this is supported from the top down from kings and presidents to the lowly idiot burning a woman at the stake who he thinks is a witch. And it IS religion the concept that witches can even exist wouldn't be if not for religion/superstition.

America's most fucked up foreign and domestic policies from war to prejudice towards gays, anti-science, anti-liberty, and socially backwards 15th century morality stem from the Evangelical Christian Right. The further we get away from the Bible the better.

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:53 am 
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Tim wrote:
Did Jesus even exist?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Rhodes

That's most likely the historical "Jesus"

Mixed with biblical and mythological stories and applied to the Sumerian Kingu (Christ) bloodline perhaps?

Good job, Ry, trying to explain it. Now since you're in Japan, explain to us this:

Image

Is that for real? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:24 am 
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Here is my take on religion from a scientific standpoint.

Today we are advancing in leaps and bounds in technology. We have actually cloned stuff. People in white lab coats have "created" stuff in labs that are nano-meters in diameter, manipulated atoms and so on. Pretty serious stuff considering 150 years ago most of what we do today would be virtually inconceivable to scientists in the mid-19th century.

Now take the basic idea of a god. Some supreme being that created the universe, earth, us, everything. Science today is working on the assumption that everything came from some Big Bang. They have no definitive story of their own for what happened before this Big Bang, but assuming no god is going to be part of their storyline, either the universe "always was", or it came from somewhere. Religious suggests that the Big Bang was essentially a god performing miraculous stuff. Either way, we're here. Something clearly happened to bring it all about.

But getting back to present technology, could we create a life with building blocks that possessed intelligence? Could we become its creator? I think most reading this would say yes. We could do that. Maybe not today, but we are clearly getting the know-how to clone and make life of various kinds, even if in a petri dish in a lab. Could we create it with intelligence? Why not? Could we one day create a universe? What is a universe? Is it just what a life form considers to be "everything"? Do the microbes within our own bodies consider a world outside of our bodies? Or, is our body their universe? If a universe is only what we perceive it to be, then maybe we could create a universe for some life form. But how well could we interact with, or change that universe for that life form?

This is the question about a god. Assuming some being created this universe, and us, just how much control would that being have over us? I could imagine being able to add more stars, more matter, more planets, more water, but it is a little harder for me to imagine that this entity could directly influence our lives by communicating directly with us or even "appearing" as a Father, Son, Holy Ghost, walking around, healing the sick, turning water into wine, walking on water. I think "our" universe would have to be smaller than His universe, thus precluding any chance of actual interaction with our universe, except by manipulation of large-scale stuff, like planets, stars, galaxies, creation and destruction. I think this god could create more planets with more life on them, adding Klingons, Romulans, Ferrenghi and Borg as He or She saw fit. I just don't think there would be much more to it than that however. There'd be no direct communication with "followers" who would then write Bibles and so on by writing down the spoken words. There wouldn't even be burning bushes as signs.

So I think it is perfectly fine for people to believe that a creator brought everything into existence somehow. Science isn't providing us with another option that has any less holes in it. So why not believe it happened some other way than a Big Bang? But to believe that this entity is directly communicating with people on earth and telling them what to do, asking them to wage wars and so on, seems far-fetched. And why so many religions over history? Yes, as this article puts forth, they are all amalgamations of pretty much the same collection of myths, retold in various forms. So why wouldn't this supreme, all-knowing being with the ability to directly communicate with us, let us know what the real truth is? And the answer is; because He can't!

Here's another issue. Let's assume we are created in His image. Fine. We're mortal. Unless this deity has actually told someone He is immortal, why should we assume he'd live any longer than us? People in white lab coats cloning sheep might be their creator, but they don't live 13.7 billion years. Assuming scientists are right and the universe is really, really old, why would this creator still be around? He may have died of a heart attack in His universe 13.69999999 billion years ago. Just because He isn't around any longer doesn't mean our universe would have to end.

So you can say God, Creator, Supreme Being, or call Him or Her anything you want. Believing in them isn't the issue. I just don't think if this universe of ours was created by some entity, that entity is either communicating with us, or even alive. And to believe otherwise is just guessing. Could our universe have been created by some being in a lab coat in a lab somewhere outside our universe? Yep. Does that mean this being is all-knowing, all-seeing, immortal and able to interact with every single one of the gazillion of life forms in his experiment? Probably not.

And lastly... the Bible by itself reads like something written by primitive people with little understanding of the way the universe and the world works. It hardly reads like something you'd expect some all-knowing supreme being to come up with. It would also have made more sense if the supreme being created the Bible Himself and just popped it into the hands of the followers, rather than having them transcribe it, don't you think? I'd think that compared to popping a universe into existence, making a little book with your thoughts and demands and expectations would be a minor effort. It just appears more likely to me, that the Bible was just the primitive writings of a bunch of myths made up and written down by a bunch of primitive people. It is not written about all peoples of the world, which would be likely if the people in the world at the time were unaware of other peoples such as the Native Americans or the Japanese, all of whom existed back then. It's just about local cultures, peoples and nations. Did God not know about these other people? Or is it just that the authors didn't know, because they were too primitive and hadn't traveled the globe to know there were others to write about and include?

(Nope, not lastly after all...) Back to science. They do the same thing as religion. Making stuff up to give answers when they have none of their own. Dark matter, dark energy, black holes. It's there, it controls everything, explains everything, you can't see it, it's invisible, just believe us and take it on faith, we know we are right... no, we cannot detect it, but if you give us gazillions we will build a Large Hadron Collider to prove it all exists, but even if it doesn't, we're still right, we'll just need more tithings... er... budgets, to prove it all... If they were truly right, they'd have a model with no holes in it.

Am um... Merry Christmas. Now I am done...


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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:30 am 
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Quote:
Now take the basic idea of a god. Some supreme being that created the universe, earth, us, everything. Science today is working on the assumption that everything came from some Big Bang


wrong

The big bang is bullshit and there is no "before" eternity there was never a time when all was void where stuff had to be created either out of nothing or magically.

Matter is eternal the same as nothingness is eternal. Nothingness doesn't come from prior nothingness it just remains nothing. And it can't come form matter. Likewise matter doesn't come from prior matter it just remains matter and it can't come from nothingness thus being is eternal there was no void and no need for a god concept.

Even if one did believe in the big bang there still wouldn't be a "before" the bang for matter. The bang is the start of knowable MOTION not matter. Matter has always existed. And The big bang theory is the origin of the universe not the origins of matter.

Quote:
Back to science. They do the same thing as religion. Making stuff up to give answers when they have none of their own. Dark matter, dark energy, black holes. It's there, it controls everything, explains everything, you can't see it, it's invisible, just believe us and take it on faith, we know we are right... n


That I agree with but I would say that's not really science but just some scientist making new elipticals its not science as a field because its not based on the observable. Its scientist trying to guess at stuff with very little philosophy. What I just said above about matter resolves all the problems and its from basic logic and philosophy not science. It's not a scientific question its a logical question. Matter can't come from nothing yet it is here thus it wasn't created its eternal.

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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:36 pm 
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I'm glad to see at least one person wants to question their assumptions. It's the only way to get further in your thoughts and to get closer to the truth. Ry, regarding what you wrote, I don't dispute most of it. It is factually correct, but where we part ways is that I think it is important for mankind to have religious morality in order to have a coherent sense of Good and Evil and of an individual's relationship to God (if one believes in God, or more precisely, if one has faith in God)

Quote:
Now take the basic idea of a god. Some supreme being that created the universe, earth, us, everything.

I agree with this, but according to Kierkegaard you must take it as an article of Faith. He called it the "Leap of Faith". It is dead end to try to prove scientifically the existence of God -- remember Pascal's wager? Back to philosophy, Based on the writings of Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma, the only logical spiritual conclusion I can come to is that there are two forces in this universe eternally at war -- God the Creator (a 'Christian' like God) and Lucifer the Architect.

Regarding Albert Pike...

Albert Pike, a highly revered 33rd degree Mason, statement on July 14, 1889 to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World:

"That which we must say to the crowd is: We worship a God, but it is the God one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine." -Albert Pike, July 14, 1889

Furthermore, regarding the Christianity vs Gnosticism (Paganism) debate that has begun in this thread ... via Albert Pike's writings,

"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God. For the eternal Law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black. For the Absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue and the brake to the locomotive. The doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic Religion 'is the belief in Lucifer,' the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil." (La Femme et L' enfant dans La Frac-Maconnerie Universelle, by A.C. De La Rive, pg. 588, and Occult Theocrasy, by Lady Queensborough, pg. 220,221")

So you see, the highest degree Masons believe in existence of their God (Lucifer) as well as the Christian God (which Pike calls Adonay). I find this very interesting. I've already chosen which side I am on.


Quote:
But getting back to present technology, could we create a life with building blocks that possessed intelligence?

Unfortunately, Synthetic life already exists -- it's in your blood as you read this. You breathed it in. Whatever monstrosity the defense contractors have created (and put in aerosol form) has quorum sensing, swarm intelligence, protein structure, etc. You can thank Lockheed-Martin. They never forget who they are working for (cough Lucifer)

Image

Image

http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs11.htm

"At this point, it is best to refer the reader to a prior paper that expresses the proposition of essentially an "engineered" organism [54]. that combines the prokaryote, eukaryote and archaea life forms"
http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/bio2011-6.htm

http://www.carnicominstitute.org/

Lastly, for those interested in the 'scientific' aspect of the universe as we know it, and how it might relate to a hypothetical God, I highly recommend the MIT paper "Parallel Universes" by Max Tegmark.

Image

I think the only coherent explanation of cosmology is a Four-level Parallel Universe structure as explained by Max Tegmark, but I'm always open to knew information. When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

Max Tegmark -- Parallel Universes
http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/multiverse.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:26 am 
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think it is important for mankind to have religious morality in order to have a coherent sense of Good and Evil and of an individual's relationship to God


Sorry but that's really stupid. For example over a billion people in Asia do not have a god figure and they are still moral. Morals are not derived from personified characters which childish stories from morally backwards religious text.

Pascal's wager is also stupid. Give me all of your money of a pink dragon will eat you at the end of the year. Are you gonna give me all of your money "just in case" because the threat of the dragon is worse than giving your money. That's so stupid to believe something is true totally out of fear and ignorance.

Quote:
It is dead end to try to prove scientifically the existence of God

No shit because there isn't one and that is why it is a dead end.

Quote:
ack to philosophy, Based on the writings of Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma, the only logical spiritual conclusion I can come to is that there are two forces in this universe eternally at war -- God the Creator (a 'Christian' like God) and Lucifer the Architect.

ha ha ha "logical spiritual conclusion" is an oxymoron.

Quote:
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God. For the eternal Law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black. For the Absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue and the brake to the locomotive. The doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic Religion 'is the belief in Lucifer,' the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil." (La Femme et L' enfant dans La Frac-Maconnerie Universelle, by A.C. De La Rive, pg. 588, and Occult Theocrasy, by Lady Queensborough, pg. 220,221")


This was all jibberish. Beauty and ugly don't have to come from omnipotent beings. In fact they don't exist but as human judgements. Same with big and small or whatever other spectrum you want to toss out those are arbitrary human judgements relative to the regular environmental conditions they were observed in.

Quote:
So you see, the highest degree Masons believe in existence of their God (Lucifer) as well as the Christian God (which Pike calls Adonay). I find this very interesting. I've already chosen which side I am on


So you see that Christians also have a god and a devil so do about 40 other religions...

Quote:
But getting back to present technology, could we create a life with building blocks that possessed intelligence?

Unfortunately, Synthetic life already exists -- it's in your blood as you read this. You breathed it in. Whatever monstrosity the defense contractors have created (and put in aerosol form) has quorum sensing, swarm intelligence, protein structure, etc. You can thank Lockheed-Martin. They never forget who they are working for (cough Lucifer)
Quote:


I don't know who you are quoting there but im sure its from whatever thread you cut and pasted this shit spam from. Any ore talk about masons or your starwars theories about good and evil and oposites steming from enteral creatures at war over souls lol or whatever and it goes to a section we call the stupid section and you will be banned from all but that section as that is where the idiots go to play BS tennis with one another.

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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:45 am 
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Is that for real? ;)


Yes they always decorate Sanders and KFC is associated with xmas.

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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:50 am 
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Ry wrote:
Yes they always decorate Sanders and KFC is associated with xmas.

Kentucky Fried Christians?

Image



i dont even know....

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 Post subject: Re: Christimas, Hidden History WARNING SPOLIER
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:52 am 
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bump

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