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 Post subject: "We got our money back" BULLSHIT
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:40 pm 
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So I've been hearing this talking point parroted over and over by leftists, and generally, when it's getting to critical mass, my father will usually revert to one of these liberal/commie/fascist-apologist one-liners in our on-going libertarian versus liberal/commie/fascist-apologist debates.

"We got our money back from GM!" he screamed at me angrily. "So stop parroting shit that's not true."

Some other "liberal etc." friends of mine had said it in almost exactly the same way, "We got our money back."


But when my dad said it I knew it was one of those slippery-slimy-not-really-true "facts" pulled from the bowels of Rachel Maddow's dildo drawer.



A simple google search for "we got our money GM bailout" will yield this webpage.



http://www.google.com/search?client=fir ... d19f024e3b





Let's look at the first two resources google has for us. Here's the first one, from November 2010:



http://seekingalpha.com/article/234060- ... ilout-work



The author, Jim Pyke, who has experience in the financial industry, according to his mini-bio at the end of the article, firstly provides an honest explanation of the situation:

"There are several views as to whether or not this bailout worked ranging from the ideological purity point of view that bailouts are bad in general and hence should never be used to those who believe it saved the United States auto industry. Unfortunately, it is not possible to replay history and see what the alternatives might have yielded. However, I think the facts suggest that the taxpayers probably could have taken a less risky approach to their investment."



So apparently, according to this source, the first source that comes up in Google, it's not as cut and dry as ABCNNBCBS would like you to believe. Those mainstream sources are what I would like to call "the left wing of the war party's television propaganda campaign."



Pyke goes on to talk about how the entire bailout was worth almost $50 billion of taxpayer money, and what exactly has been paid off, and concludes:



"The conclusion is clearly not finalized and will not be until after the IPO is completed. The first scenario considered suggests a potential loss to taxpayers of about $15 billion and assumes that no future assistance would be required and excludes the US government cost of capital over the last about 2 years which at a 3% estimate would be another $3 billion in interest payments to finance the bailout."

So, while still being very generous to the federal government, Pyke still predicts a 15 billion dollar loss for taxpayers. As in, even if Pyke is wrong, and the money is paid back eventually, we haven't gotten our money back in full as of yet, and there's no evidence to believe we will.



Unless you trust the second source. Which of course, is our fearless leader reassuring us everything will be fine.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38574424/Taxpaye ... lout_Obama



In August, CNBC reported President Obama promised the nation they would be paid back in full for the bailout of GM.



He promised a lot of things. Like ending NAFTA when he was campaigning for President. Like ending the war in Iraq. Like expanding the war in Afghanistan (about the only one he kept). He also promised AIPAC that Jerusalem would be the undivided capital of Israel, which is pretty fucking racist if you ask me, but the Palestinians don't matter to you leftist/liberal/progressives, so I digress.





Here's an article from Bloomberg from August, right around the time Obama made his promise to taxpayers.



http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ilout.html



Again, the responsible reporters give us an initial view of the situation as a whole, not some half-hearted promise.



"Outgoing Chief Executive Officer Ed Whitacre has pushed to end government ownership of GM, which received a $50 billion taxpayer bailout following its bankruptcy in June 2009. The Detroit-based company is seeking an IPO of as much as $16 billion, a person familiar with the plans said last week, as it tries to revive its unprofitable European unit and rebuild U.S. brands that have lost market share in every year since 2002."



To think $50 billion would be repaid so quickly, to repeat this talking point of "We got our money back," is to ignore all common sense, logic, and reason, and to use a slogan to fill a void of evidence.



Bloomberg continues:



"The U.S. has about $42.2 billion invested in the automaker’s common equity, according to a senior official in President Barack Obama’s administration.

For the government to break even, GM’s shares must be worth at least $69.4 billion, and even more if the bondholders and United Auto Workers union exercise warrants for 106 million shares at strike prices from $30 to $126.92 apiece, according to the company’s filing and data compiled by Bloomberg.

That’s more than three times GM’s stock-market value at the end of the last bull market in U.S. stocks and 65 percent higher than Ford Motor Co.’s current capitalization of $42 billion.

At current bond prices, GM’s implied equity value is about $50 billion, data compiled by Bloomberg show."

If you can read (sorry to pry you away from Jon Stewart), this means: 1. We didn't get our money back. 2. For the taxpayers to break even on the deal, GM's shares have to triple from where they were at the end of the last bull cycle in the market, and 3. their shares have to be worth 65% more than their competitors. In other words, Obama's promise is not likely to be met, even when you're being generous with the math.



Speaking of Ford verus GM, here's a nice little article on the subject, post-bailout:

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/inde ... he_re.html



Frank Ryan, the author, and a veteran of the wars Iraq and Afghanistan notes that we haven't gotten our $50 billion back:

"The U.S. Treasury said it received $11.7 billion from last week's sale of GM stock, far shy of the $49.5 billion the government put into GM as part of its bailout of the giant automaker. The government still owns some shares, but whether taxpayers break even will depend upon share price performance in coming months."

But there are worse claims. That GM is paying back what little money it can to the government, with more government money. From Reason.com (omg kill the evil conservative libertarian intellectual elites with their common sense economic philosophy of not spending more than you produce!):



"But when Whitacre says GM has paid back the bailout money in full, he means not the entire $49.5 billion—the loan and the equity. In fact, he avoids all mention of that figure in his column. He means only the $6.7 billion loan amount.

But wait! Even that's not the full story given that GM, which has not yet broken even, much less turned a profit, can't pay even this puny amount from its own earnings.

So how is it paying it?

As it turns out, the Obama administration put $13.4 billion of the aid money as "working capital" in an escrow account when the company was in bankruptcy. The company is using this escrow money—government money—to pay back the government loan.

GM claims that the fact that it is even using the escrow money to pay back the loan instead of using it all to shore itself up shows that it is on the road to recovery. That actually would be a positive development—although hardly one worth hyping in ads and columns—if it were not for a further plot twist.

Sean McAlinden, chief economist at the Ann Arbor-based Center for Automotive Research, points out that the company has applied to the Department of Energy for $10 billion in low (5 percent) interest loan to retool its plants to meet the government's tougher new CAFÉ (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. However, giving GM more taxpayer money on top of the existing bailout would have been a political disaster for the Obama administration and a PR debacle for the company. Paying back the small bailout loan makes the new—and bigger—DOE loan much more feasible.

In short, GM is using government money to pay back government money to get more government money. And at a 2 percent lower interest rate at that. This is a nifty scheme to refinance GM's government debt—not pay it back!

GM boasts that, because it is doing so well, it is paying the $6.7 billion five years ahead of schedule since it was not due until 2015. So will there be an accelerated payback of the rest of the $49.6 billion investment? No. That goal has been pushed back, as it turns out."



http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/27/g ... ut-payback



So there you have it. The GM bailout is ripping of American taxpayers, and no, we didn't get our money back. Don't believe everything you hear Rachel Maddow or Jon Stewart or President Obama say. They don't care about you. When did Jon Stewart ever ask Obama about the war when he had him on his show? They are not trying to fix the economy, they are stealing your money. Fixing the economy would involve letting the free market work, but that's for another day, but I doubt liberal/commie/progressive/socialists will ever stop buying the Keyensian bullshit, or ever know who Ludwig Von Mises is. When I'm talking about the free market and capitalism, I'm not talking about Adam Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: "We got our money back" BULLSHIT
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:34 pm 
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What a bunch of douches. Look they took money from YOU and gave it to gov who gave it to banks who gave it to GM, GM then paid the money back not to you, but to banks. Thus you lost your money.

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And what of the oh 11 trillion spent on bailout for financial?

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