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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:48 pm 
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cdwitmer wrote:
Speaking of religious zealots, I can see they are out in force today to bash Christopher Columbus and his Christian faith as the very essence of evil. First off, there is no denying that a great deal of inhumanity, injustice, cruelty and barbarism have been perpetrated by ostensibly Christian outsiders against indigenous peoples around the world over the centuries, even continuing down to the present day. So I'll acknowledge the obvious and get that out of the way. But how about putting all that in a proper, balanced perspective? Nobody is served by loading up the figure of Columbus with all of the academic heresies of the modern day -- Eurocentrism, imperialism, elitism, etc. -- and the weighing upon him of the collective sins of America. Neither is anyone served by portraying the Native American as the mythical "noble savage" -- an uncorrupted race of humanity -- and presenting pre-Columbian America as a virtuous Eden of ecological harmony and peace. The fact of the matter is, discovery of the Western hemisphere by the Spanish was an event for which we should all be grateful.

The European settlement of the New World should be compared with other similar events in history -- the Huns, the rise of Islam, the Norman Conquest of England, and even the American Indian tradition of raiding, conquering and depopulating the tribes of neighboring lands. In that context, the Europeans as a whole do not stand out as particularly evil. And, notably, it must be kept in mind that to the extent the Europeans were evil, it was not because of their Christian faith, but rather because of their LACK of it, or their DISOBEDIENCE to the teachings of Christ. In no way can evil be attrbuted to the teachings of Christ Himself.

Native American culture was not a monolith, but at its worst -- as seen in the mass human sacrifices of the great totalitarian Indian empires -- it was indeed evil, and, unlike the case of the Europeans, that evil had to have been rooted in their religions because the human sacrifices were part and parcel of their religion. Was the elimination of all that evil an evil thing?

Much more could be said, but it is not my intention to get into a shooting match with my fellow anti-Neocons over this topic . . . but some more balanced handling of this topic would be good to see.


ry, a religious zealot??? thats hilarious, he's an atheist! genius (as if it wasn't blatantly obvious) And i don't think anyone is blaming the entirety of the sinful nature of america on colombus, moreso excoriating the idea of celebrating a known rapist and religious lunatic for "discovering" america.

and now you are lumping all the natives in america as "evil"? why because they don't share your same divorce with reality that is a pre-requisite for the belief in christianity? yeh people weren't christian enough when they performed their genocide and raped and pilloried the "heretics"? in the end how many atheists try and "convert" people to believe in reason rather than fairy tales? do we have any "atheist crusades"?

as a fellow atheist i can say that the lack of religion in my life is the main thing that makes me mentally healthy, i don't need a book to tell me the difference between right and wrong and i certainly don't need any of my future kids to be molested by catholic priests either while we buy them a bigger church. organized religion is what gives good people the excuse to do wrong because their bar book of stories says its okay.

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Last edited by neoConSlayer on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:11 am 
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ry, a religious zealot??? thats hilarious, he's an atheist genius (as if it wasn't blatantly obvious) And i don't think anyone is blaming the entirety of the sinful nature of america on colombus, moreso excoriating the idea of celebrating a known rapist and religious lunatic for "discovering" america.

and now you are lumping all the natives in america as "evil"? why because they don't share your same divorce with reality that is a pre-requisite for the belief in christianity? yeh people weren't christian enough when they performed their genocide and raped and pillored the "heretics"? in the end how many atheists try and "convert" people to believe in reason rather than fairy tales? do we have any "atheist crusades"?

as a fellow atheist i can say that the lack of religion in my life is the main thing that makes me mentally healthy, i don't need a book to tell me the difference between right and wrong and i certainly don't need any of my future kids to be molested by catholic priests either while we buy them a bigger church. organized religion is what gives good people the excuse to do wrong because their bar book of stories says its okay.


Wow! =) Very well said.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:10 am 
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Speaking Christoforo Colombo, from his own journal, the information to get to the west was from West Africa where it was common from local people to travel with a large dugout with a lot of food and goods. In fact, his journey through America was done by following those dugouts path using jet stream that moved from West Africa to central America, already known from the old Egyptian dynasties.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:21 am 
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Europe was not religious enough HAHAHAHHAHAH!

The pope divided the whole New World between Portugal and Spain. The Church financed the killings, justified them and on top of that Europe was also in a Holy War with its neighbors over which invisible man to believe in.

Columbus went to the Caribbean there were no human sacrificed there until the Christians got there and started to burn and hang people for sport.

It wasn't a lack of Christianity that was a problem. Christianity praised financed and called for the genocide. Ever hear of Manifest Destiny. The very political system of the Divine Right of Kings was created by the Bible. A leack of Christianity could have freed Europe from Serfdom and Slavery, demolished the nobles/commoner dichotomy, liberated women, you know minor things like that.

Jesus taught to bring his enemies before him and kill them in front of him. He came to make not peace but war. Listen to him after describing how to beat disobedient slaves (something he never spoke out against) he tells it like it is. He wanted to burn the whole world.

Luke 12: 47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Not Peace but Division
Luke 49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51 .Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.

again Matthew

10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

-Jesus Christ

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Sensi Dave wrote:
At the website Wake Up From Your Slumber today there was posted a 1926 article actually from B'nai B'rith about Columbus' little known Jewish heritage. I was skeptical about this claim but here it is confirmed:

Source: Jewish Reference Book: B'nai B'rith Manual
Edited by Samuel S. Cohon
Cincinnati, Ohio
1926

pp. 248-250

THE JEW IN AMERICA BY SAMUEL S. COHON

The Jewish Role in the Discovery of America — While many Jews are recent immigrants, the Jew is no new arrival in this country. In point of length of residence and of service, he is the equal of any white man on this continent. That he played an important role in the discovery of America is a matter of history.

In recent years, the conviction has grown in the minds of scholars that Columbus' blood was partly Jewish. His mother, so it is alleged, came of a well-known Jewish family — the Ponte Rossi. And "Collom," which is the real name of Columbus, was that of an Italian Jewish family. As it was not safe in those days, in Spain, to be known as Jew, he called himself a "Genoese navigator." Though his origin is still a mooted question, it is pretty certain that he associated with Jews and was the recipient of their aid in his great work. When he failed to induce Ferdinand and Isabella to assist him in his undertaking, he turned to the Marrano, Louis de Santangel, the chan-celor of Aragon, for assistance. Together with his relative, Gabriel Sanchez, the royal treasurer, and his friend, Juan Cabrero, the royal chamberlain, also of Jewish blood, Santangel entered energetically into the plans of Columbus. He showed the queen the advantages to the crown and'to Spain of the discovery of a short route to India; the immortal fame and the limitless wealth that would be theirs.

Inspired by this glamor, the queen consented to pawn her jewels in order to raise sufficient funds for the expedition but she did not have to go that far. Santangel modestly requested to be permitted to advance the needed money out of his private treasury and accordingly advanced, without interest, 1,700 ducats (which is equivalent to $160,000 in our money). In view of these facts, Prof. Herbert B. Adams appropriately coined the fine epigram: "Not Jewels, but Jews were the real financial basis for the first expedition of Columbus."

Santangel's zeal was prompted, not only by his high-mindedness, but also by his Jewish loyalty. Two of his uncles were burnt by the Inquisition because of their Judaism and he himself, as may be well imagined, suffered greatly because of the mask of Catholicism which he was forced to wear. The condition of the Jews of Spain was near-ing its highest point of misery. Ferdinand and Isabella were preparing to expel all the Jews from their provinces. On August 2, 1492, about 300,000 Jews who refused to become Christians left Spain; and on the following day, Columbus, with the aid of Santangel, set sail in search of what turned out to be a haven of rest for the wandering Jews as for all the persecuted.

Columbus took with him the astronomical charts and instruments prepared by Abraham Zacuto, a Jewish professor at Salamanka. These were of incalculable service to the navigator and, on one occasion, saved the lives of the whole company. At least five members of the expedition, including the surgeon, Marco, the ship's doctor, Bernal, and the interpreter, Louis Torres, were Jews. Torres was the first European to tread on American soil and also the first to discover the use of tobacco. He won the good-will of a Cuban chief and received from him large grants of land and many slaves as presents. Columbus' recognition of his indebtedness to the Jews is shown also by the fact that the first detailed account of his discoveries was addressed to his Jewish patron, Louis de Santangel, and a similar letter was sent to Gabriel Sanchez.

Columbus' second expedition (1493) was again financed by Jewish funds. This time the money came not from the pocket of a rich Jewish patron, but out of the funds realized from the sale of the confiscated possessions of the Jews that were expelled from Spain.



...so I assume after Israel is full they'll come over here and try to colonize? Ehm, sorry, re-colonize.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:04 pm 
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...so I assume after Israel is full they'll come over here and try to colonize? Ehm, sorry, re-colonize....

That is the plan. Zionist would love to take over the middle east and they are trying to do what Columbus did to the natives. Hezbullah, Hamas and PLO (kind of) help to end that as well as normal people aware of the issues in the middle east can stop it. We are making a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Ry wrote:
Columbus was not Jewish he was a Christian and a hardcore one. His mother was married into the Knights of Malta you can't be any more Catholic than that. And He sailed with the Malta cross on his ships he brought bibles, and named the fucking Island San Salvador "Our Savior" after Jesus Christ. He would sacrifice people 13 at at time for the 12 apostles and the savior. He read a proclamation from the fucking Pope. Columbus was a hardcore Christian.

B'Nai Brith is a fucking liar, moron, and a racist Zionist. He just wants to say "Jews" discovered America. Columbus didn't even discover America either.


B'nai B'rith is the prominent Jewish organization that the ADL was spawned from, not an individual person. I assume you meant the author of that 1926 article from the B'nai B'rith. I'm not sure if you're right or wrong but just because someone was a Catholic back then didn't mean that they necessarily weren't of Jewish ethnicity or even covert Jewish religious faith. Because back then people were less tolerant of Jews & there were forced conversions & also a lot of Jews pretended to be of other religions to make life easier for themselves, & practiced Judaism in secrecy. That's what 'crypto-Jews' are.

I don't think the Catholic connection should be ignored though. There's still a lot of Catholic & Jesuit activity & power in the world today. The Jesuit theorists have poisoned the well by spreading disinfo such as saying that the Federal Reserve is controlled by the Pope & as a result people reject Catholicism's participation in the conspiracy altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:35 pm 
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Columbus was Christian religiously and ethnically he was not financed by Jews either he was financed by the king and queen of Spain the town his ships were built in came because of the debt the owed the crown for get this, driving out the Jews. Ever hear of the Spanish kicking out the Moores? Moores means Jews and Muslims. This is very established history and just because some tool writes something on the internet doesn't make it so. There is no documentation and nothing sited for these wild claims.

Yah Jewish or Christian he was a monster who cares. I care. I care for the accuracy of History.

Christopher Columbus was a hardcore Christian and was financed by the Christian Monarchy of Spain one that had just won a war driving the Jews and Muslims out of Span and one which would shortly go after non-believers within it's own country and burn people alive.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Chrostopher Columbus
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Ry wrote:
Columbus was Christian religiously and ethnically he was not financed by Jews either he was financed by the king and queen of Spain the town his ships were built in came because of the debt the owed the crown for get this, driving out the Jews. Ever hear of the Spanish kicking out the Moores? Moores means Jews and Muslims. This is very established history and just because some tool writes something on the internet doesn't make it so. There is no documentation and nothing sited for these wild claims.

Yah Jewish or Christian he was a monster who cares. I care. I care for the accuracy of History.

Christopher Columbus was a hardcore Christian and was financed by the Christian Monarchy of Spain one that had just won a war driving the Jews and Muslims out of Span and one which would shortly go after non-believers within it's own country and burn people alive.


It was written over 90 years ago in a Jewish publication, not by someone on the internet. It was merely posted on the internet by someone. Because of the purges of Jews & non-Christians was why many Jews converted or went crypto. A quote from the article: "As it was not safe in those days, in Spain, to be known as Jew, he called himself a "Genoese navigator."

More sources that make the claim, none of these are conspiracy sites:

http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/so ... lumbus.htm
http://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/109/
http://www.maranathachapel.org/about/ra ... jewis.html


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